Prove that $v, Tv, T^2v, … , T^{m-1}v$ is linearly independent











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Suppose $T$ is in $L(V)$, $m$ is a positive integer, and $v$ in vector space $V$ is such that



$(T^{m-1})v neq 0$,



and



$(T^m)v = 0$.



Prove that $[v, Tv, T^2v, ... , T^{m-1}v]$ is linearly independent




I get that $(T^j)v neq 0 forall j < m$. Additionally, since $T$ is nilpotent, $V$ has a basis with respect to which the matrix of $T$ has $0$s on and below the diagonal.



However, I'm not sure if these can be used to show linear independence or if they're even relevant to the problem at all.



Any help is appreciated!










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    up vote
    4
    down vote

    favorite
    2













    Suppose $T$ is in $L(V)$, $m$ is a positive integer, and $v$ in vector space $V$ is such that



    $(T^{m-1})v neq 0$,



    and



    $(T^m)v = 0$.



    Prove that $[v, Tv, T^2v, ... , T^{m-1}v]$ is linearly independent




    I get that $(T^j)v neq 0 forall j < m$. Additionally, since $T$ is nilpotent, $V$ has a basis with respect to which the matrix of $T$ has $0$s on and below the diagonal.



    However, I'm not sure if these can be used to show linear independence or if they're even relevant to the problem at all.



    Any help is appreciated!










    share|cite|improve this question


























      up vote
      4
      down vote

      favorite
      2









      up vote
      4
      down vote

      favorite
      2






      2






      Suppose $T$ is in $L(V)$, $m$ is a positive integer, and $v$ in vector space $V$ is such that



      $(T^{m-1})v neq 0$,



      and



      $(T^m)v = 0$.



      Prove that $[v, Tv, T^2v, ... , T^{m-1}v]$ is linearly independent




      I get that $(T^j)v neq 0 forall j < m$. Additionally, since $T$ is nilpotent, $V$ has a basis with respect to which the matrix of $T$ has $0$s on and below the diagonal.



      However, I'm not sure if these can be used to show linear independence or if they're even relevant to the problem at all.



      Any help is appreciated!










      share|cite|improve this question
















      Suppose $T$ is in $L(V)$, $m$ is a positive integer, and $v$ in vector space $V$ is such that



      $(T^{m-1})v neq 0$,



      and



      $(T^m)v = 0$.



      Prove that $[v, Tv, T^2v, ... , T^{m-1}v]$ is linearly independent




      I get that $(T^j)v neq 0 forall j < m$. Additionally, since $T$ is nilpotent, $V$ has a basis with respect to which the matrix of $T$ has $0$s on and below the diagonal.



      However, I'm not sure if these can be used to show linear independence or if they're even relevant to the problem at all.



      Any help is appreciated!







      linear-algebra matrices linear-transformations






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      edited Apr 19 '17 at 20:28

























      asked Apr 19 '17 at 18:49









      Student_514

      906




      906






















          2 Answers
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          up vote
          4
          down vote



          accepted










          It is simple to do it directly:



          If $a_0 v + a_1 Tv +a _2 T^2v + cdots + a_{m-1} T^{m-1}v=0$, then apply $T^{m-1}$ and get $a_0 T^{m-1}v=0$, which implies $a_0=0$. Now apply $T^{m-2}$ to get $a_1=0$. And so on.






          share|cite|improve this answer




























            up vote
            3
            down vote













            The matrix $T$ need not be nilpotent. Let's take a simple example: $n=2$.
            Say you have a vector $v$ with $Tvne0$ but $T^2v=0$. Let $w=Tv$.
            We need to show that $av+bw=0$ implies $a=b=0$. But applying $T$ gives
            $$0=T(av+bw)=aTv+bTw=aw.$$
            As $wne0$, $a=0$. Therefore $bw=0$ and so $b=0$.



            Can you do something similar for $n=3$? General $n$?






            share|cite|improve this answer





















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              2 Answers
              2






              active

              oldest

              votes








              2 Answers
              2






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes








              up vote
              4
              down vote



              accepted










              It is simple to do it directly:



              If $a_0 v + a_1 Tv +a _2 T^2v + cdots + a_{m-1} T^{m-1}v=0$, then apply $T^{m-1}$ and get $a_0 T^{m-1}v=0$, which implies $a_0=0$. Now apply $T^{m-2}$ to get $a_1=0$. And so on.






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                4
                down vote



                accepted










                It is simple to do it directly:



                If $a_0 v + a_1 Tv +a _2 T^2v + cdots + a_{m-1} T^{m-1}v=0$, then apply $T^{m-1}$ and get $a_0 T^{m-1}v=0$, which implies $a_0=0$. Now apply $T^{m-2}$ to get $a_1=0$. And so on.






                share|cite|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote



                  accepted







                  up vote
                  4
                  down vote



                  accepted






                  It is simple to do it directly:



                  If $a_0 v + a_1 Tv +a _2 T^2v + cdots + a_{m-1} T^{m-1}v=0$, then apply $T^{m-1}$ and get $a_0 T^{m-1}v=0$, which implies $a_0=0$. Now apply $T^{m-2}$ to get $a_1=0$. And so on.






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  It is simple to do it directly:



                  If $a_0 v + a_1 Tv +a _2 T^2v + cdots + a_{m-1} T^{m-1}v=0$, then apply $T^{m-1}$ and get $a_0 T^{m-1}v=0$, which implies $a_0=0$. Now apply $T^{m-2}$ to get $a_1=0$. And so on.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Apr 19 '17 at 18:57









                  lhf

                  162k9166385




                  162k9166385






















                      up vote
                      3
                      down vote













                      The matrix $T$ need not be nilpotent. Let's take a simple example: $n=2$.
                      Say you have a vector $v$ with $Tvne0$ but $T^2v=0$. Let $w=Tv$.
                      We need to show that $av+bw=0$ implies $a=b=0$. But applying $T$ gives
                      $$0=T(av+bw)=aTv+bTw=aw.$$
                      As $wne0$, $a=0$. Therefore $bw=0$ and so $b=0$.



                      Can you do something similar for $n=3$? General $n$?






                      share|cite|improve this answer

























                        up vote
                        3
                        down vote













                        The matrix $T$ need not be nilpotent. Let's take a simple example: $n=2$.
                        Say you have a vector $v$ with $Tvne0$ but $T^2v=0$. Let $w=Tv$.
                        We need to show that $av+bw=0$ implies $a=b=0$. But applying $T$ gives
                        $$0=T(av+bw)=aTv+bTw=aw.$$
                        As $wne0$, $a=0$. Therefore $bw=0$ and so $b=0$.



                        Can you do something similar for $n=3$? General $n$?






                        share|cite|improve this answer























                          up vote
                          3
                          down vote










                          up vote
                          3
                          down vote









                          The matrix $T$ need not be nilpotent. Let's take a simple example: $n=2$.
                          Say you have a vector $v$ with $Tvne0$ but $T^2v=0$. Let $w=Tv$.
                          We need to show that $av+bw=0$ implies $a=b=0$. But applying $T$ gives
                          $$0=T(av+bw)=aTv+bTw=aw.$$
                          As $wne0$, $a=0$. Therefore $bw=0$ and so $b=0$.



                          Can you do something similar for $n=3$? General $n$?






                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          The matrix $T$ need not be nilpotent. Let's take a simple example: $n=2$.
                          Say you have a vector $v$ with $Tvne0$ but $T^2v=0$. Let $w=Tv$.
                          We need to show that $av+bw=0$ implies $a=b=0$. But applying $T$ gives
                          $$0=T(av+bw)=aTv+bTw=aw.$$
                          As $wne0$, $a=0$. Therefore $bw=0$ and so $b=0$.



                          Can you do something similar for $n=3$? General $n$?







                          share|cite|improve this answer












                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer










                          answered Apr 19 '17 at 18:53









                          Lord Shark the Unknown

                          98.8k958131




                          98.8k958131






























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