For $pin(1,infty)$, why does $||f||_p=||g||_p=left|left|frac{f+g}{2}right|right|_p$ imply that $f=g$?











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4
down vote

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Problem Statement.



I am working on the following exercise:




Prove that if $mu$ is a measure, $pin(1,infty)$ and $f,gin
L^p(mu)$
are such that
$$||f||_p=||g||_p=left|left|frac{f+g}{2}right|right|_p,$$ then
$f=g$.






Notation.



For a measure space $(X,mathcal{S},mu)$ and $pin(0,infty]$ (where $mathbf{F}$ is taken to be either $mathbf{R}$ or $mathbf{C}$):




  1. $L^p(mu)={tilde{f}: finmathcal{L}^p(mu)}$


  2. $mathcal{L}^p(mu)={f:Xrightarrowmathbf{F}: f text{ is } mathcal{S}text{-measurable and } int f,dmu<infty}$


  3. $tilde{f}={f+z: zinmathcal{Z}(mu)}$ where $mathcal{Z}(mu)$ is the set of $mathcal{S}$-measurable functions from $X$ to $mathbf{F}$ that equal $0$ almost everywhere.





My Thoughts.



I am a bit confused as to how this is even an exercise, and here is why. We define $$||tilde{f}||_p=||f||_p$$ for $pin (0,infty].$ Thus even though the $f$ and $g$ given are actually $tilde{f}$ and $tilde{g}$, it doesn't matter since $||tilde{f}||_p=||f||_p$ and $||tilde{g}||_p=||g||_p$, thus implying that $||f||_p=||g||_p$. But if this is the case then $$left(int |f|^p,dmu right)^{1/p}=left(int |g|^p,dmu right)^{1/p}.$$ How could that possibly be the case if $fneq g$? I would say I'm done at this point, but clearly I am missing something. I didn't even use the last equality, i.e. $$left|left|frac{f+g}{2}right|right|_p.$$ So what am I missing here? There must be something I am misunderstanding!



Thanks in advance for your help!










share|cite|improve this question


















  • 1




    I think you are focusing too much on the equivalence class aspect of $L^{p}$ spaces. I don't think this is that relevant here. How could it be the case that $fneq g$. What if $p=2$, $X=[0,1]$, $f=x$, and $g=x^{1.5}*sqrt{4/3}$. Then $int_{0}^{1} f^2 = 1/3$ and $int_{0}^{1} g^2 = 4/3int_{0}^{1} x^3 = 1/3$.
    – Wraith1995
    Nov 24 at 7:37












  • @Wraith1995 That is a good example. Thank you for your insight. Could this equality fail if $p=1$ or $p=infty$?
    – Thy Art is Math
    Nov 24 at 10:20















up vote
4
down vote

favorite












Problem Statement.



I am working on the following exercise:




Prove that if $mu$ is a measure, $pin(1,infty)$ and $f,gin
L^p(mu)$
are such that
$$||f||_p=||g||_p=left|left|frac{f+g}{2}right|right|_p,$$ then
$f=g$.






Notation.



For a measure space $(X,mathcal{S},mu)$ and $pin(0,infty]$ (where $mathbf{F}$ is taken to be either $mathbf{R}$ or $mathbf{C}$):




  1. $L^p(mu)={tilde{f}: finmathcal{L}^p(mu)}$


  2. $mathcal{L}^p(mu)={f:Xrightarrowmathbf{F}: f text{ is } mathcal{S}text{-measurable and } int f,dmu<infty}$


  3. $tilde{f}={f+z: zinmathcal{Z}(mu)}$ where $mathcal{Z}(mu)$ is the set of $mathcal{S}$-measurable functions from $X$ to $mathbf{F}$ that equal $0$ almost everywhere.





My Thoughts.



I am a bit confused as to how this is even an exercise, and here is why. We define $$||tilde{f}||_p=||f||_p$$ for $pin (0,infty].$ Thus even though the $f$ and $g$ given are actually $tilde{f}$ and $tilde{g}$, it doesn't matter since $||tilde{f}||_p=||f||_p$ and $||tilde{g}||_p=||g||_p$, thus implying that $||f||_p=||g||_p$. But if this is the case then $$left(int |f|^p,dmu right)^{1/p}=left(int |g|^p,dmu right)^{1/p}.$$ How could that possibly be the case if $fneq g$? I would say I'm done at this point, but clearly I am missing something. I didn't even use the last equality, i.e. $$left|left|frac{f+g}{2}right|right|_p.$$ So what am I missing here? There must be something I am misunderstanding!



Thanks in advance for your help!










share|cite|improve this question


















  • 1




    I think you are focusing too much on the equivalence class aspect of $L^{p}$ spaces. I don't think this is that relevant here. How could it be the case that $fneq g$. What if $p=2$, $X=[0,1]$, $f=x$, and $g=x^{1.5}*sqrt{4/3}$. Then $int_{0}^{1} f^2 = 1/3$ and $int_{0}^{1} g^2 = 4/3int_{0}^{1} x^3 = 1/3$.
    – Wraith1995
    Nov 24 at 7:37












  • @Wraith1995 That is a good example. Thank you for your insight. Could this equality fail if $p=1$ or $p=infty$?
    – Thy Art is Math
    Nov 24 at 10:20













up vote
4
down vote

favorite









up vote
4
down vote

favorite











Problem Statement.



I am working on the following exercise:




Prove that if $mu$ is a measure, $pin(1,infty)$ and $f,gin
L^p(mu)$
are such that
$$||f||_p=||g||_p=left|left|frac{f+g}{2}right|right|_p,$$ then
$f=g$.






Notation.



For a measure space $(X,mathcal{S},mu)$ and $pin(0,infty]$ (where $mathbf{F}$ is taken to be either $mathbf{R}$ or $mathbf{C}$):




  1. $L^p(mu)={tilde{f}: finmathcal{L}^p(mu)}$


  2. $mathcal{L}^p(mu)={f:Xrightarrowmathbf{F}: f text{ is } mathcal{S}text{-measurable and } int f,dmu<infty}$


  3. $tilde{f}={f+z: zinmathcal{Z}(mu)}$ where $mathcal{Z}(mu)$ is the set of $mathcal{S}$-measurable functions from $X$ to $mathbf{F}$ that equal $0$ almost everywhere.





My Thoughts.



I am a bit confused as to how this is even an exercise, and here is why. We define $$||tilde{f}||_p=||f||_p$$ for $pin (0,infty].$ Thus even though the $f$ and $g$ given are actually $tilde{f}$ and $tilde{g}$, it doesn't matter since $||tilde{f}||_p=||f||_p$ and $||tilde{g}||_p=||g||_p$, thus implying that $||f||_p=||g||_p$. But if this is the case then $$left(int |f|^p,dmu right)^{1/p}=left(int |g|^p,dmu right)^{1/p}.$$ How could that possibly be the case if $fneq g$? I would say I'm done at this point, but clearly I am missing something. I didn't even use the last equality, i.e. $$left|left|frac{f+g}{2}right|right|_p.$$ So what am I missing here? There must be something I am misunderstanding!



Thanks in advance for your help!










share|cite|improve this question













Problem Statement.



I am working on the following exercise:




Prove that if $mu$ is a measure, $pin(1,infty)$ and $f,gin
L^p(mu)$
are such that
$$||f||_p=||g||_p=left|left|frac{f+g}{2}right|right|_p,$$ then
$f=g$.






Notation.



For a measure space $(X,mathcal{S},mu)$ and $pin(0,infty]$ (where $mathbf{F}$ is taken to be either $mathbf{R}$ or $mathbf{C}$):




  1. $L^p(mu)={tilde{f}: finmathcal{L}^p(mu)}$


  2. $mathcal{L}^p(mu)={f:Xrightarrowmathbf{F}: f text{ is } mathcal{S}text{-measurable and } int f,dmu<infty}$


  3. $tilde{f}={f+z: zinmathcal{Z}(mu)}$ where $mathcal{Z}(mu)$ is the set of $mathcal{S}$-measurable functions from $X$ to $mathbf{F}$ that equal $0$ almost everywhere.





My Thoughts.



I am a bit confused as to how this is even an exercise, and here is why. We define $$||tilde{f}||_p=||f||_p$$ for $pin (0,infty].$ Thus even though the $f$ and $g$ given are actually $tilde{f}$ and $tilde{g}$, it doesn't matter since $||tilde{f}||_p=||f||_p$ and $||tilde{g}||_p=||g||_p$, thus implying that $||f||_p=||g||_p$. But if this is the case then $$left(int |f|^p,dmu right)^{1/p}=left(int |g|^p,dmu right)^{1/p}.$$ How could that possibly be the case if $fneq g$? I would say I'm done at this point, but clearly I am missing something. I didn't even use the last equality, i.e. $$left|left|frac{f+g}{2}right|right|_p.$$ So what am I missing here? There must be something I am misunderstanding!



Thanks in advance for your help!







real-analysis measure-theory norm lp-spaces






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asked Nov 24 at 7:26









Thy Art is Math

477211




477211








  • 1




    I think you are focusing too much on the equivalence class aspect of $L^{p}$ spaces. I don't think this is that relevant here. How could it be the case that $fneq g$. What if $p=2$, $X=[0,1]$, $f=x$, and $g=x^{1.5}*sqrt{4/3}$. Then $int_{0}^{1} f^2 = 1/3$ and $int_{0}^{1} g^2 = 4/3int_{0}^{1} x^3 = 1/3$.
    – Wraith1995
    Nov 24 at 7:37












  • @Wraith1995 That is a good example. Thank you for your insight. Could this equality fail if $p=1$ or $p=infty$?
    – Thy Art is Math
    Nov 24 at 10:20














  • 1




    I think you are focusing too much on the equivalence class aspect of $L^{p}$ spaces. I don't think this is that relevant here. How could it be the case that $fneq g$. What if $p=2$, $X=[0,1]$, $f=x$, and $g=x^{1.5}*sqrt{4/3}$. Then $int_{0}^{1} f^2 = 1/3$ and $int_{0}^{1} g^2 = 4/3int_{0}^{1} x^3 = 1/3$.
    – Wraith1995
    Nov 24 at 7:37












  • @Wraith1995 That is a good example. Thank you for your insight. Could this equality fail if $p=1$ or $p=infty$?
    – Thy Art is Math
    Nov 24 at 10:20








1




1




I think you are focusing too much on the equivalence class aspect of $L^{p}$ spaces. I don't think this is that relevant here. How could it be the case that $fneq g$. What if $p=2$, $X=[0,1]$, $f=x$, and $g=x^{1.5}*sqrt{4/3}$. Then $int_{0}^{1} f^2 = 1/3$ and $int_{0}^{1} g^2 = 4/3int_{0}^{1} x^3 = 1/3$.
– Wraith1995
Nov 24 at 7:37






I think you are focusing too much on the equivalence class aspect of $L^{p}$ spaces. I don't think this is that relevant here. How could it be the case that $fneq g$. What if $p=2$, $X=[0,1]$, $f=x$, and $g=x^{1.5}*sqrt{4/3}$. Then $int_{0}^{1} f^2 = 1/3$ and $int_{0}^{1} g^2 = 4/3int_{0}^{1} x^3 = 1/3$.
– Wraith1995
Nov 24 at 7:37














@Wraith1995 That is a good example. Thank you for your insight. Could this equality fail if $p=1$ or $p=infty$?
– Thy Art is Math
Nov 24 at 10:20




@Wraith1995 That is a good example. Thank you for your insight. Could this equality fail if $p=1$ or $p=infty$?
– Thy Art is Math
Nov 24 at 10:20










1 Answer
1






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oldest

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up vote
2
down vote



accepted










The p-norm $f mapsto |f|_p$ is strictly convex (edit : as a norm on a vector space, not as a function), due to Minkowski inequality.



I will note $| cdot |=| cdot |_p$ for convenience.



If $f ne lambda g$ on a set of positive measure for all $lambda >0$, then for all $t in (0,1)$ :



$$|t f +(1-t)g|<t|f| +(1-t)|g|.$$



But, having $|f|=|g|$ being equal to $left|frac{f+g}2 right|$ is impossible. Indeed, putting $t = 1/2$ yields :



$$left|frac{f+g}2 right|<frac 1 2 (| f | + |g |) =|f|=|g|.$$



Then $f= lambda g$, but since $|f|=|lambda| |g|$ and $lambda >0$, then $lambda = 1$.



So we must have $f=g$ a.e. .






share|cite|improve this answer























  • Pardon me if this is a dumb question, but I don't know much about convex functions. Is the $p$-norm $frightarrow ||f||_p$ strictly convex because we are excluding $p=1$ and $p=infty$?
    – Thy Art is Math
    Nov 24 at 7:55








  • 1




    Yes, you are correct.
    – nicomezi
    Nov 24 at 7:59











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1 Answer
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1 Answer
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up vote
2
down vote



accepted










The p-norm $f mapsto |f|_p$ is strictly convex (edit : as a norm on a vector space, not as a function), due to Minkowski inequality.



I will note $| cdot |=| cdot |_p$ for convenience.



If $f ne lambda g$ on a set of positive measure for all $lambda >0$, then for all $t in (0,1)$ :



$$|t f +(1-t)g|<t|f| +(1-t)|g|.$$



But, having $|f|=|g|$ being equal to $left|frac{f+g}2 right|$ is impossible. Indeed, putting $t = 1/2$ yields :



$$left|frac{f+g}2 right|<frac 1 2 (| f | + |g |) =|f|=|g|.$$



Then $f= lambda g$, but since $|f|=|lambda| |g|$ and $lambda >0$, then $lambda = 1$.



So we must have $f=g$ a.e. .






share|cite|improve this answer























  • Pardon me if this is a dumb question, but I don't know much about convex functions. Is the $p$-norm $frightarrow ||f||_p$ strictly convex because we are excluding $p=1$ and $p=infty$?
    – Thy Art is Math
    Nov 24 at 7:55








  • 1




    Yes, you are correct.
    – nicomezi
    Nov 24 at 7:59















up vote
2
down vote



accepted










The p-norm $f mapsto |f|_p$ is strictly convex (edit : as a norm on a vector space, not as a function), due to Minkowski inequality.



I will note $| cdot |=| cdot |_p$ for convenience.



If $f ne lambda g$ on a set of positive measure for all $lambda >0$, then for all $t in (0,1)$ :



$$|t f +(1-t)g|<t|f| +(1-t)|g|.$$



But, having $|f|=|g|$ being equal to $left|frac{f+g}2 right|$ is impossible. Indeed, putting $t = 1/2$ yields :



$$left|frac{f+g}2 right|<frac 1 2 (| f | + |g |) =|f|=|g|.$$



Then $f= lambda g$, but since $|f|=|lambda| |g|$ and $lambda >0$, then $lambda = 1$.



So we must have $f=g$ a.e. .






share|cite|improve this answer























  • Pardon me if this is a dumb question, but I don't know much about convex functions. Is the $p$-norm $frightarrow ||f||_p$ strictly convex because we are excluding $p=1$ and $p=infty$?
    – Thy Art is Math
    Nov 24 at 7:55








  • 1




    Yes, you are correct.
    – nicomezi
    Nov 24 at 7:59













up vote
2
down vote



accepted







up vote
2
down vote



accepted






The p-norm $f mapsto |f|_p$ is strictly convex (edit : as a norm on a vector space, not as a function), due to Minkowski inequality.



I will note $| cdot |=| cdot |_p$ for convenience.



If $f ne lambda g$ on a set of positive measure for all $lambda >0$, then for all $t in (0,1)$ :



$$|t f +(1-t)g|<t|f| +(1-t)|g|.$$



But, having $|f|=|g|$ being equal to $left|frac{f+g}2 right|$ is impossible. Indeed, putting $t = 1/2$ yields :



$$left|frac{f+g}2 right|<frac 1 2 (| f | + |g |) =|f|=|g|.$$



Then $f= lambda g$, but since $|f|=|lambda| |g|$ and $lambda >0$, then $lambda = 1$.



So we must have $f=g$ a.e. .






share|cite|improve this answer














The p-norm $f mapsto |f|_p$ is strictly convex (edit : as a norm on a vector space, not as a function), due to Minkowski inequality.



I will note $| cdot |=| cdot |_p$ for convenience.



If $f ne lambda g$ on a set of positive measure for all $lambda >0$, then for all $t in (0,1)$ :



$$|t f +(1-t)g|<t|f| +(1-t)|g|.$$



But, having $|f|=|g|$ being equal to $left|frac{f+g}2 right|$ is impossible. Indeed, putting $t = 1/2$ yields :



$$left|frac{f+g}2 right|<frac 1 2 (| f | + |g |) =|f|=|g|.$$



Then $f= lambda g$, but since $|f|=|lambda| |g|$ and $lambda >0$, then $lambda = 1$.



So we must have $f=g$ a.e. .







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Nov 24 at 9:49

























answered Nov 24 at 7:41









nicomezi

3,9421819




3,9421819












  • Pardon me if this is a dumb question, but I don't know much about convex functions. Is the $p$-norm $frightarrow ||f||_p$ strictly convex because we are excluding $p=1$ and $p=infty$?
    – Thy Art is Math
    Nov 24 at 7:55








  • 1




    Yes, you are correct.
    – nicomezi
    Nov 24 at 7:59


















  • Pardon me if this is a dumb question, but I don't know much about convex functions. Is the $p$-norm $frightarrow ||f||_p$ strictly convex because we are excluding $p=1$ and $p=infty$?
    – Thy Art is Math
    Nov 24 at 7:55








  • 1




    Yes, you are correct.
    – nicomezi
    Nov 24 at 7:59
















Pardon me if this is a dumb question, but I don't know much about convex functions. Is the $p$-norm $frightarrow ||f||_p$ strictly convex because we are excluding $p=1$ and $p=infty$?
– Thy Art is Math
Nov 24 at 7:55






Pardon me if this is a dumb question, but I don't know much about convex functions. Is the $p$-norm $frightarrow ||f||_p$ strictly convex because we are excluding $p=1$ and $p=infty$?
– Thy Art is Math
Nov 24 at 7:55






1




1




Yes, you are correct.
– nicomezi
Nov 24 at 7:59




Yes, you are correct.
– nicomezi
Nov 24 at 7:59


















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