Prove that $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is irrational. Generalise this.
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
I'm reading R. Courant & H. Robbins' "What is Mathematics: An Elementary Approach to Ideas and Methods" for fun. I'm on page $60$ and $61$ of the second addition. There are three exercises on proving numbers irrational spanning these pages, the last is as follows.
Exercise $3$: Prove that $phi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is irrational. Try to make up similar and more general examples.
My Attempt:
Lemma: The number $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$ is irrational. (This is part of Exercise 2.)
Proof: Suppose $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=r$ is rational. Then
$$begin{align}
2&=(r-sqrt{3})^2 \
&=r^2-2sqrt{3}+3
end{align}$$ is rational, so that
$$sqrt{3}=frac{r^2+1}{2r}$$ is rational, a contradiction. $square$
Let $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Then, considering $phi$,
$$begin{align}
5&=(phi-psi)^2 \
&=phi^2-psiphi+5+2sqrt{6}.
end{align}$$
I don't know what else to do from here.
My plan is/was to use the Lemma above as the focus for a contradiction, showing $psi$ is rational somehow.
Please help :)
Thoughts:
The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague.
The question is not answered here as far as I can tell.
elementary-number-theory
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
I'm reading R. Courant & H. Robbins' "What is Mathematics: An Elementary Approach to Ideas and Methods" for fun. I'm on page $60$ and $61$ of the second addition. There are three exercises on proving numbers irrational spanning these pages, the last is as follows.
Exercise $3$: Prove that $phi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is irrational. Try to make up similar and more general examples.
My Attempt:
Lemma: The number $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$ is irrational. (This is part of Exercise 2.)
Proof: Suppose $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=r$ is rational. Then
$$begin{align}
2&=(r-sqrt{3})^2 \
&=r^2-2sqrt{3}+3
end{align}$$ is rational, so that
$$sqrt{3}=frac{r^2+1}{2r}$$ is rational, a contradiction. $square$
Let $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Then, considering $phi$,
$$begin{align}
5&=(phi-psi)^2 \
&=phi^2-psiphi+5+2sqrt{6}.
end{align}$$
I don't know what else to do from here.
My plan is/was to use the Lemma above as the focus for a contradiction, showing $psi$ is rational somehow.
Please help :)
Thoughts:
The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague.
The question is not answered here as far as I can tell.
elementary-number-theory
3
@Wolfram Unlikely, from the chosen reference ...
– Michael Burr
Feb 2 '17 at 15:14
1
@Wolfram A little bit, yes, from Galois Theory and Algebraic Number Theory, but I'm approaching this from Elementary Number Theory, as the title of the book suggests.
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:15
1
You can work out the minimal polynomial of your number, it turns out to be $x^8 - 40 x^6 + 352 x^4 - 960 x^2 + 576$ (I did it with Wolfram Alpha, could be done by hand with some effort).
– lulu
Feb 2 '17 at 15:17
1
Using some well known results from field theory one sees that $1, sqrt{2}, sqrt{3}$ and $sqrt{5}$ are members of some basis of $Bbb{Q}[sqrt{2},sqrt{3},sqrt{5}]$ over $Bbb{Q}$. $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ can be uniquely expressed as a linear combination of elements of this basis, so it is irrational.
– Vik78
Feb 2 '17 at 15:31
1
You write "The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague." The question is quite interesting. You may find the following conclusion: "The sum of an arbitrary nimber square roots of prime numbers is irrational." Try to imagine a few other theorems. The lemma in @N.S.'s answer seems to be the most general.
– Bernard Massé
Feb 2 '17 at 17:08
|
show 4 more comments
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
up vote
8
down vote
favorite
I'm reading R. Courant & H. Robbins' "What is Mathematics: An Elementary Approach to Ideas and Methods" for fun. I'm on page $60$ and $61$ of the second addition. There are three exercises on proving numbers irrational spanning these pages, the last is as follows.
Exercise $3$: Prove that $phi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is irrational. Try to make up similar and more general examples.
My Attempt:
Lemma: The number $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$ is irrational. (This is part of Exercise 2.)
Proof: Suppose $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=r$ is rational. Then
$$begin{align}
2&=(r-sqrt{3})^2 \
&=r^2-2sqrt{3}+3
end{align}$$ is rational, so that
$$sqrt{3}=frac{r^2+1}{2r}$$ is rational, a contradiction. $square$
Let $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Then, considering $phi$,
$$begin{align}
5&=(phi-psi)^2 \
&=phi^2-psiphi+5+2sqrt{6}.
end{align}$$
I don't know what else to do from here.
My plan is/was to use the Lemma above as the focus for a contradiction, showing $psi$ is rational somehow.
Please help :)
Thoughts:
The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague.
The question is not answered here as far as I can tell.
elementary-number-theory
I'm reading R. Courant & H. Robbins' "What is Mathematics: An Elementary Approach to Ideas and Methods" for fun. I'm on page $60$ and $61$ of the second addition. There are three exercises on proving numbers irrational spanning these pages, the last is as follows.
Exercise $3$: Prove that $phi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is irrational. Try to make up similar and more general examples.
My Attempt:
Lemma: The number $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$ is irrational. (This is part of Exercise 2.)
Proof: Suppose $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=r$ is rational. Then
$$begin{align}
2&=(r-sqrt{3})^2 \
&=r^2-2sqrt{3}+3
end{align}$$ is rational, so that
$$sqrt{3}=frac{r^2+1}{2r}$$ is rational, a contradiction. $square$
Let $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Then, considering $phi$,
$$begin{align}
5&=(phi-psi)^2 \
&=phi^2-psiphi+5+2sqrt{6}.
end{align}$$
I don't know what else to do from here.
My plan is/was to use the Lemma above as the focus for a contradiction, showing $psi$ is rational somehow.
Please help :)
Thoughts:
The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague.
The question is not answered here as far as I can tell.
elementary-number-theory
elementary-number-theory
edited Nov 27 at 16:40
asked Feb 2 '17 at 15:08
Shaun
8,205113578
8,205113578
3
@Wolfram Unlikely, from the chosen reference ...
– Michael Burr
Feb 2 '17 at 15:14
1
@Wolfram A little bit, yes, from Galois Theory and Algebraic Number Theory, but I'm approaching this from Elementary Number Theory, as the title of the book suggests.
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:15
1
You can work out the minimal polynomial of your number, it turns out to be $x^8 - 40 x^6 + 352 x^4 - 960 x^2 + 576$ (I did it with Wolfram Alpha, could be done by hand with some effort).
– lulu
Feb 2 '17 at 15:17
1
Using some well known results from field theory one sees that $1, sqrt{2}, sqrt{3}$ and $sqrt{5}$ are members of some basis of $Bbb{Q}[sqrt{2},sqrt{3},sqrt{5}]$ over $Bbb{Q}$. $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ can be uniquely expressed as a linear combination of elements of this basis, so it is irrational.
– Vik78
Feb 2 '17 at 15:31
1
You write "The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague." The question is quite interesting. You may find the following conclusion: "The sum of an arbitrary nimber square roots of prime numbers is irrational." Try to imagine a few other theorems. The lemma in @N.S.'s answer seems to be the most general.
– Bernard Massé
Feb 2 '17 at 17:08
|
show 4 more comments
3
@Wolfram Unlikely, from the chosen reference ...
– Michael Burr
Feb 2 '17 at 15:14
1
@Wolfram A little bit, yes, from Galois Theory and Algebraic Number Theory, but I'm approaching this from Elementary Number Theory, as the title of the book suggests.
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:15
1
You can work out the minimal polynomial of your number, it turns out to be $x^8 - 40 x^6 + 352 x^4 - 960 x^2 + 576$ (I did it with Wolfram Alpha, could be done by hand with some effort).
– lulu
Feb 2 '17 at 15:17
1
Using some well known results from field theory one sees that $1, sqrt{2}, sqrt{3}$ and $sqrt{5}$ are members of some basis of $Bbb{Q}[sqrt{2},sqrt{3},sqrt{5}]$ over $Bbb{Q}$. $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ can be uniquely expressed as a linear combination of elements of this basis, so it is irrational.
– Vik78
Feb 2 '17 at 15:31
1
You write "The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague." The question is quite interesting. You may find the following conclusion: "The sum of an arbitrary nimber square roots of prime numbers is irrational." Try to imagine a few other theorems. The lemma in @N.S.'s answer seems to be the most general.
– Bernard Massé
Feb 2 '17 at 17:08
3
3
@Wolfram Unlikely, from the chosen reference ...
– Michael Burr
Feb 2 '17 at 15:14
@Wolfram Unlikely, from the chosen reference ...
– Michael Burr
Feb 2 '17 at 15:14
1
1
@Wolfram A little bit, yes, from Galois Theory and Algebraic Number Theory, but I'm approaching this from Elementary Number Theory, as the title of the book suggests.
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:15
@Wolfram A little bit, yes, from Galois Theory and Algebraic Number Theory, but I'm approaching this from Elementary Number Theory, as the title of the book suggests.
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:15
1
1
You can work out the minimal polynomial of your number, it turns out to be $x^8 - 40 x^6 + 352 x^4 - 960 x^2 + 576$ (I did it with Wolfram Alpha, could be done by hand with some effort).
– lulu
Feb 2 '17 at 15:17
You can work out the minimal polynomial of your number, it turns out to be $x^8 - 40 x^6 + 352 x^4 - 960 x^2 + 576$ (I did it with Wolfram Alpha, could be done by hand with some effort).
– lulu
Feb 2 '17 at 15:17
1
1
Using some well known results from field theory one sees that $1, sqrt{2}, sqrt{3}$ and $sqrt{5}$ are members of some basis of $Bbb{Q}[sqrt{2},sqrt{3},sqrt{5}]$ over $Bbb{Q}$. $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ can be uniquely expressed as a linear combination of elements of this basis, so it is irrational.
– Vik78
Feb 2 '17 at 15:31
Using some well known results from field theory one sees that $1, sqrt{2}, sqrt{3}$ and $sqrt{5}$ are members of some basis of $Bbb{Q}[sqrt{2},sqrt{3},sqrt{5}]$ over $Bbb{Q}$. $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ can be uniquely expressed as a linear combination of elements of this basis, so it is irrational.
– Vik78
Feb 2 '17 at 15:31
1
1
You write "The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague." The question is quite interesting. You may find the following conclusion: "The sum of an arbitrary nimber square roots of prime numbers is irrational." Try to imagine a few other theorems. The lemma in @N.S.'s answer seems to be the most general.
– Bernard Massé
Feb 2 '17 at 17:08
You write "The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague." The question is quite interesting. You may find the following conclusion: "The sum of an arbitrary nimber square roots of prime numbers is irrational." Try to imagine a few other theorems. The lemma in @N.S.'s answer seems to be the most general.
– Bernard Massé
Feb 2 '17 at 17:08
|
show 4 more comments
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
up vote
10
down vote
accepted
Hint:
Assume by contradiction that $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is rational. Then
$$(psi-sqrt{5})^2=(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2 \
psi^2-2sqrt{5}psi+5=5+2sqrt{6} \
psi^2=2sqrt{6} +2sqrt{5}psi\
$$
Square it one more time, and you reach the contradiction.
For the general case, here is a nice trivial solution from Kvant: prove the following lemma:
Lemma If $a_1,a_2,..,a_k$ are distinct integers $geq 2$, none of which is divisible by a square, and $b_1,..,b_n$ are integers such that
$$b_1sqrt{a_1}+...+b_nsqrt{a_n} in mathbb Q$$
then $b_1=...=b_n=0$.
Proof: Do induction by the number $m$ of primes which divide $a_1...a_n$.
The inductive step $P(m)Rightarrow P(m+1)$ is done by contradiction: move all terms for which $a_k$ is divisible by the $p_{m+1}$ on one side, everything else on the other side and square, to end in the case $P_m$.
It should be +2 sqrt 5 psi
– user236182
Feb 2 '17 at 15:35
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
Okay, if $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=rinmathbb Q$, then:
$$(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2=(r-sqrt{5})^2$$
$$2+2sqrt6+3=r^2-2sqrt5 r+5$$
$$2sqrt6=r^2-2sqrt5 r$$
Square this once again and you obtain that $sqrt5$ is rational, which is a contradiction.
Ah, of course! Thank you! $ddotsmile$
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:19
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
We assume we have
$$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{m}{n}$$ with $gcd(m,n)=1$. We write
$$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=frac{m}{n}-sqrt{5};$$
squaring, we have
$$2sqrt{6}=frac{m^2}{n^2}-2frac{m}{n}sqrt{5};$$
and squaring once again then simplifying, we arrive at
$$5frac{n}{m}+frac{m}{4n}-6frac{n^3}{m^3}=sqrt{5}.$$
This is a contradiction, since we have on the left only rational numbers and on the right side an irrational number.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
An alternative solution. Assume that $alpha=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{a}{b}inmathbb{Q}$. By quadratic reciprocity, there is some prime $p>b$ such that $3$ and $5$ are quadratic residues $!!pmod{p}$ while $2$ is not. That implies that $alpha$ is an algebraic number over $mathbb{K}=mathbb{F}_p$ with degree $2$, since $sqrt{2}$ does not belong to $mathbb{K}$ but belongs to a quadratic extension of $mathbb{K}$. On the other hand $b<p$ ensures that $b$ is an invertible element $!!pmod{p}$ and $alphainmathbb{K}$, contradiction.
This proof has a straightforward generalization: the sum of the square roots of some prime numbers is never a rational number.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
Use these properties of rational numbers:
- If $x$ is rational then $x^2$ is also rational.
- Sum of a rational number and an irrational number is irrational.
Let's suppose $x = sqrt 2 + sqrt 3$ is rational. Then $x^2 = 5 + 2 sqrt 6$ (which is irrational using the second property).
Using the first property, $x$ also becomes irrational.
Now using the second property we can say that since $x(sqrt 2 + sqrt 3)$ is irrational, irrespective of whether $sqrt 5$ is rational or irrational using the second property, the total sum will be irrational. Thus $sqrt 2 + sqrt 3 + sqrt 5$ is irrational.
1
Here's a MathJax tutorial.
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:24
Hi. Your post could use some layout, you can read on the mathjax tutorial how to layout the math.
– mathreadler
Feb 2 '17 at 17:30
Cut him some slack, he's new. But he'll be expected to start doing it himself as time goes on.
– Mr. Brooks
Feb 4 '17 at 22:34
Thanks Sir for the edit.I am new and I am trying to learn stuffs
– Abhishek Kumar
Feb 5 '17 at 5:24
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
10
down vote
accepted
Hint:
Assume by contradiction that $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is rational. Then
$$(psi-sqrt{5})^2=(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2 \
psi^2-2sqrt{5}psi+5=5+2sqrt{6} \
psi^2=2sqrt{6} +2sqrt{5}psi\
$$
Square it one more time, and you reach the contradiction.
For the general case, here is a nice trivial solution from Kvant: prove the following lemma:
Lemma If $a_1,a_2,..,a_k$ are distinct integers $geq 2$, none of which is divisible by a square, and $b_1,..,b_n$ are integers such that
$$b_1sqrt{a_1}+...+b_nsqrt{a_n} in mathbb Q$$
then $b_1=...=b_n=0$.
Proof: Do induction by the number $m$ of primes which divide $a_1...a_n$.
The inductive step $P(m)Rightarrow P(m+1)$ is done by contradiction: move all terms for which $a_k$ is divisible by the $p_{m+1}$ on one side, everything else on the other side and square, to end in the case $P_m$.
It should be +2 sqrt 5 psi
– user236182
Feb 2 '17 at 15:35
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
accepted
Hint:
Assume by contradiction that $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is rational. Then
$$(psi-sqrt{5})^2=(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2 \
psi^2-2sqrt{5}psi+5=5+2sqrt{6} \
psi^2=2sqrt{6} +2sqrt{5}psi\
$$
Square it one more time, and you reach the contradiction.
For the general case, here is a nice trivial solution from Kvant: prove the following lemma:
Lemma If $a_1,a_2,..,a_k$ are distinct integers $geq 2$, none of which is divisible by a square, and $b_1,..,b_n$ are integers such that
$$b_1sqrt{a_1}+...+b_nsqrt{a_n} in mathbb Q$$
then $b_1=...=b_n=0$.
Proof: Do induction by the number $m$ of primes which divide $a_1...a_n$.
The inductive step $P(m)Rightarrow P(m+1)$ is done by contradiction: move all terms for which $a_k$ is divisible by the $p_{m+1}$ on one side, everything else on the other side and square, to end in the case $P_m$.
It should be +2 sqrt 5 psi
– user236182
Feb 2 '17 at 15:35
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
accepted
up vote
10
down vote
accepted
Hint:
Assume by contradiction that $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is rational. Then
$$(psi-sqrt{5})^2=(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2 \
psi^2-2sqrt{5}psi+5=5+2sqrt{6} \
psi^2=2sqrt{6} +2sqrt{5}psi\
$$
Square it one more time, and you reach the contradiction.
For the general case, here is a nice trivial solution from Kvant: prove the following lemma:
Lemma If $a_1,a_2,..,a_k$ are distinct integers $geq 2$, none of which is divisible by a square, and $b_1,..,b_n$ are integers such that
$$b_1sqrt{a_1}+...+b_nsqrt{a_n} in mathbb Q$$
then $b_1=...=b_n=0$.
Proof: Do induction by the number $m$ of primes which divide $a_1...a_n$.
The inductive step $P(m)Rightarrow P(m+1)$ is done by contradiction: move all terms for which $a_k$ is divisible by the $p_{m+1}$ on one side, everything else on the other side and square, to end in the case $P_m$.
Hint:
Assume by contradiction that $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is rational. Then
$$(psi-sqrt{5})^2=(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2 \
psi^2-2sqrt{5}psi+5=5+2sqrt{6} \
psi^2=2sqrt{6} +2sqrt{5}psi\
$$
Square it one more time, and you reach the contradiction.
For the general case, here is a nice trivial solution from Kvant: prove the following lemma:
Lemma If $a_1,a_2,..,a_k$ are distinct integers $geq 2$, none of which is divisible by a square, and $b_1,..,b_n$ are integers such that
$$b_1sqrt{a_1}+...+b_nsqrt{a_n} in mathbb Q$$
then $b_1=...=b_n=0$.
Proof: Do induction by the number $m$ of primes which divide $a_1...a_n$.
The inductive step $P(m)Rightarrow P(m+1)$ is done by contradiction: move all terms for which $a_k$ is divisible by the $p_{m+1}$ on one side, everything else on the other side and square, to end in the case $P_m$.
edited Feb 2 '17 at 15:49
answered Feb 2 '17 at 15:23
N. S.
101k5108203
101k5108203
It should be +2 sqrt 5 psi
– user236182
Feb 2 '17 at 15:35
add a comment |
It should be +2 sqrt 5 psi
– user236182
Feb 2 '17 at 15:35
It should be +2 sqrt 5 psi
– user236182
Feb 2 '17 at 15:35
It should be +2 sqrt 5 psi
– user236182
Feb 2 '17 at 15:35
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
Okay, if $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=rinmathbb Q$, then:
$$(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2=(r-sqrt{5})^2$$
$$2+2sqrt6+3=r^2-2sqrt5 r+5$$
$$2sqrt6=r^2-2sqrt5 r$$
Square this once again and you obtain that $sqrt5$ is rational, which is a contradiction.
Ah, of course! Thank you! $ddotsmile$
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:19
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
Okay, if $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=rinmathbb Q$, then:
$$(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2=(r-sqrt{5})^2$$
$$2+2sqrt6+3=r^2-2sqrt5 r+5$$
$$2sqrt6=r^2-2sqrt5 r$$
Square this once again and you obtain that $sqrt5$ is rational, which is a contradiction.
Ah, of course! Thank you! $ddotsmile$
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:19
add a comment |
up vote
10
down vote
up vote
10
down vote
Okay, if $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=rinmathbb Q$, then:
$$(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2=(r-sqrt{5})^2$$
$$2+2sqrt6+3=r^2-2sqrt5 r+5$$
$$2sqrt6=r^2-2sqrt5 r$$
Square this once again and you obtain that $sqrt5$ is rational, which is a contradiction.
Okay, if $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=rinmathbb Q$, then:
$$(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2=(r-sqrt{5})^2$$
$$2+2sqrt6+3=r^2-2sqrt5 r+5$$
$$2sqrt6=r^2-2sqrt5 r$$
Square this once again and you obtain that $sqrt5$ is rational, which is a contradiction.
answered Feb 2 '17 at 15:17
Wolfram
1,840212
1,840212
Ah, of course! Thank you! $ddotsmile$
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:19
add a comment |
Ah, of course! Thank you! $ddotsmile$
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:19
Ah, of course! Thank you! $ddotsmile$
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:19
Ah, of course! Thank you! $ddotsmile$
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:19
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
We assume we have
$$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{m}{n}$$ with $gcd(m,n)=1$. We write
$$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=frac{m}{n}-sqrt{5};$$
squaring, we have
$$2sqrt{6}=frac{m^2}{n^2}-2frac{m}{n}sqrt{5};$$
and squaring once again then simplifying, we arrive at
$$5frac{n}{m}+frac{m}{4n}-6frac{n^3}{m^3}=sqrt{5}.$$
This is a contradiction, since we have on the left only rational numbers and on the right side an irrational number.
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
We assume we have
$$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{m}{n}$$ with $gcd(m,n)=1$. We write
$$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=frac{m}{n}-sqrt{5};$$
squaring, we have
$$2sqrt{6}=frac{m^2}{n^2}-2frac{m}{n}sqrt{5};$$
and squaring once again then simplifying, we arrive at
$$5frac{n}{m}+frac{m}{4n}-6frac{n^3}{m^3}=sqrt{5}.$$
This is a contradiction, since we have on the left only rational numbers and on the right side an irrational number.
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
We assume we have
$$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{m}{n}$$ with $gcd(m,n)=1$. We write
$$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=frac{m}{n}-sqrt{5};$$
squaring, we have
$$2sqrt{6}=frac{m^2}{n^2}-2frac{m}{n}sqrt{5};$$
and squaring once again then simplifying, we arrive at
$$5frac{n}{m}+frac{m}{4n}-6frac{n^3}{m^3}=sqrt{5}.$$
This is a contradiction, since we have on the left only rational numbers and on the right side an irrational number.
We assume we have
$$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{m}{n}$$ with $gcd(m,n)=1$. We write
$$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=frac{m}{n}-sqrt{5};$$
squaring, we have
$$2sqrt{6}=frac{m^2}{n^2}-2frac{m}{n}sqrt{5};$$
and squaring once again then simplifying, we arrive at
$$5frac{n}{m}+frac{m}{4n}-6frac{n^3}{m^3}=sqrt{5}.$$
This is a contradiction, since we have on the left only rational numbers and on the right side an irrational number.
edited Feb 2 '17 at 15:23
Shaun
8,205113578
8,205113578
answered Feb 2 '17 at 15:20
Dr. Sonnhard Graubner
72.2k32865
72.2k32865
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
An alternative solution. Assume that $alpha=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{a}{b}inmathbb{Q}$. By quadratic reciprocity, there is some prime $p>b$ such that $3$ and $5$ are quadratic residues $!!pmod{p}$ while $2$ is not. That implies that $alpha$ is an algebraic number over $mathbb{K}=mathbb{F}_p$ with degree $2$, since $sqrt{2}$ does not belong to $mathbb{K}$ but belongs to a quadratic extension of $mathbb{K}$. On the other hand $b<p$ ensures that $b$ is an invertible element $!!pmod{p}$ and $alphainmathbb{K}$, contradiction.
This proof has a straightforward generalization: the sum of the square roots of some prime numbers is never a rational number.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
An alternative solution. Assume that $alpha=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{a}{b}inmathbb{Q}$. By quadratic reciprocity, there is some prime $p>b$ such that $3$ and $5$ are quadratic residues $!!pmod{p}$ while $2$ is not. That implies that $alpha$ is an algebraic number over $mathbb{K}=mathbb{F}_p$ with degree $2$, since $sqrt{2}$ does not belong to $mathbb{K}$ but belongs to a quadratic extension of $mathbb{K}$. On the other hand $b<p$ ensures that $b$ is an invertible element $!!pmod{p}$ and $alphainmathbb{K}$, contradiction.
This proof has a straightforward generalization: the sum of the square roots of some prime numbers is never a rational number.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
An alternative solution. Assume that $alpha=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{a}{b}inmathbb{Q}$. By quadratic reciprocity, there is some prime $p>b$ such that $3$ and $5$ are quadratic residues $!!pmod{p}$ while $2$ is not. That implies that $alpha$ is an algebraic number over $mathbb{K}=mathbb{F}_p$ with degree $2$, since $sqrt{2}$ does not belong to $mathbb{K}$ but belongs to a quadratic extension of $mathbb{K}$. On the other hand $b<p$ ensures that $b$ is an invertible element $!!pmod{p}$ and $alphainmathbb{K}$, contradiction.
This proof has a straightforward generalization: the sum of the square roots of some prime numbers is never a rational number.
An alternative solution. Assume that $alpha=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{a}{b}inmathbb{Q}$. By quadratic reciprocity, there is some prime $p>b$ such that $3$ and $5$ are quadratic residues $!!pmod{p}$ while $2$ is not. That implies that $alpha$ is an algebraic number over $mathbb{K}=mathbb{F}_p$ with degree $2$, since $sqrt{2}$ does not belong to $mathbb{K}$ but belongs to a quadratic extension of $mathbb{K}$. On the other hand $b<p$ ensures that $b$ is an invertible element $!!pmod{p}$ and $alphainmathbb{K}$, contradiction.
This proof has a straightforward generalization: the sum of the square roots of some prime numbers is never a rational number.
answered Feb 2 '17 at 16:45
Jack D'Aurizio
285k33275654
285k33275654
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
Use these properties of rational numbers:
- If $x$ is rational then $x^2$ is also rational.
- Sum of a rational number and an irrational number is irrational.
Let's suppose $x = sqrt 2 + sqrt 3$ is rational. Then $x^2 = 5 + 2 sqrt 6$ (which is irrational using the second property).
Using the first property, $x$ also becomes irrational.
Now using the second property we can say that since $x(sqrt 2 + sqrt 3)$ is irrational, irrespective of whether $sqrt 5$ is rational or irrational using the second property, the total sum will be irrational. Thus $sqrt 2 + sqrt 3 + sqrt 5$ is irrational.
1
Here's a MathJax tutorial.
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:24
Hi. Your post could use some layout, you can read on the mathjax tutorial how to layout the math.
– mathreadler
Feb 2 '17 at 17:30
Cut him some slack, he's new. But he'll be expected to start doing it himself as time goes on.
– Mr. Brooks
Feb 4 '17 at 22:34
Thanks Sir for the edit.I am new and I am trying to learn stuffs
– Abhishek Kumar
Feb 5 '17 at 5:24
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
Use these properties of rational numbers:
- If $x$ is rational then $x^2$ is also rational.
- Sum of a rational number and an irrational number is irrational.
Let's suppose $x = sqrt 2 + sqrt 3$ is rational. Then $x^2 = 5 + 2 sqrt 6$ (which is irrational using the second property).
Using the first property, $x$ also becomes irrational.
Now using the second property we can say that since $x(sqrt 2 + sqrt 3)$ is irrational, irrespective of whether $sqrt 5$ is rational or irrational using the second property, the total sum will be irrational. Thus $sqrt 2 + sqrt 3 + sqrt 5$ is irrational.
1
Here's a MathJax tutorial.
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:24
Hi. Your post could use some layout, you can read on the mathjax tutorial how to layout the math.
– mathreadler
Feb 2 '17 at 17:30
Cut him some slack, he's new. But he'll be expected to start doing it himself as time goes on.
– Mr. Brooks
Feb 4 '17 at 22:34
Thanks Sir for the edit.I am new and I am trying to learn stuffs
– Abhishek Kumar
Feb 5 '17 at 5:24
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Use these properties of rational numbers:
- If $x$ is rational then $x^2$ is also rational.
- Sum of a rational number and an irrational number is irrational.
Let's suppose $x = sqrt 2 + sqrt 3$ is rational. Then $x^2 = 5 + 2 sqrt 6$ (which is irrational using the second property).
Using the first property, $x$ also becomes irrational.
Now using the second property we can say that since $x(sqrt 2 + sqrt 3)$ is irrational, irrespective of whether $sqrt 5$ is rational or irrational using the second property, the total sum will be irrational. Thus $sqrt 2 + sqrt 3 + sqrt 5$ is irrational.
Use these properties of rational numbers:
- If $x$ is rational then $x^2$ is also rational.
- Sum of a rational number and an irrational number is irrational.
Let's suppose $x = sqrt 2 + sqrt 3$ is rational. Then $x^2 = 5 + 2 sqrt 6$ (which is irrational using the second property).
Using the first property, $x$ also becomes irrational.
Now using the second property we can say that since $x(sqrt 2 + sqrt 3)$ is irrational, irrespective of whether $sqrt 5$ is rational or irrational using the second property, the total sum will be irrational. Thus $sqrt 2 + sqrt 3 + sqrt 5$ is irrational.
edited Feb 4 '17 at 22:51
Mr. Brooks
31811237
31811237
answered Feb 2 '17 at 15:19
Abhishek Kumar
292
292
1
Here's a MathJax tutorial.
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:24
Hi. Your post could use some layout, you can read on the mathjax tutorial how to layout the math.
– mathreadler
Feb 2 '17 at 17:30
Cut him some slack, he's new. But he'll be expected to start doing it himself as time goes on.
– Mr. Brooks
Feb 4 '17 at 22:34
Thanks Sir for the edit.I am new and I am trying to learn stuffs
– Abhishek Kumar
Feb 5 '17 at 5:24
add a comment |
1
Here's a MathJax tutorial.
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:24
Hi. Your post could use some layout, you can read on the mathjax tutorial how to layout the math.
– mathreadler
Feb 2 '17 at 17:30
Cut him some slack, he's new. But he'll be expected to start doing it himself as time goes on.
– Mr. Brooks
Feb 4 '17 at 22:34
Thanks Sir for the edit.I am new and I am trying to learn stuffs
– Abhishek Kumar
Feb 5 '17 at 5:24
1
1
Here's a MathJax tutorial.
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:24
Here's a MathJax tutorial.
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:24
Hi. Your post could use some layout, you can read on the mathjax tutorial how to layout the math.
– mathreadler
Feb 2 '17 at 17:30
Hi. Your post could use some layout, you can read on the mathjax tutorial how to layout the math.
– mathreadler
Feb 2 '17 at 17:30
Cut him some slack, he's new. But he'll be expected to start doing it himself as time goes on.
– Mr. Brooks
Feb 4 '17 at 22:34
Cut him some slack, he's new. But he'll be expected to start doing it himself as time goes on.
– Mr. Brooks
Feb 4 '17 at 22:34
Thanks Sir for the edit.I am new and I am trying to learn stuffs
– Abhishek Kumar
Feb 5 '17 at 5:24
Thanks Sir for the edit.I am new and I am trying to learn stuffs
– Abhishek Kumar
Feb 5 '17 at 5:24
add a comment |
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3
@Wolfram Unlikely, from the chosen reference ...
– Michael Burr
Feb 2 '17 at 15:14
1
@Wolfram A little bit, yes, from Galois Theory and Algebraic Number Theory, but I'm approaching this from Elementary Number Theory, as the title of the book suggests.
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:15
1
You can work out the minimal polynomial of your number, it turns out to be $x^8 - 40 x^6 + 352 x^4 - 960 x^2 + 576$ (I did it with Wolfram Alpha, could be done by hand with some effort).
– lulu
Feb 2 '17 at 15:17
1
Using some well known results from field theory one sees that $1, sqrt{2}, sqrt{3}$ and $sqrt{5}$ are members of some basis of $Bbb{Q}[sqrt{2},sqrt{3},sqrt{5}]$ over $Bbb{Q}$. $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ can be uniquely expressed as a linear combination of elements of this basis, so it is irrational.
– Vik78
Feb 2 '17 at 15:31
1
You write "The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague." The question is quite interesting. You may find the following conclusion: "The sum of an arbitrary nimber square roots of prime numbers is irrational." Try to imagine a few other theorems. The lemma in @N.S.'s answer seems to be the most general.
– Bernard Massé
Feb 2 '17 at 17:08