Prove that $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is irrational. Generalise this.











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I'm reading R. Courant & H. Robbins' "What is Mathematics: An Elementary Approach to Ideas and Methods" for fun. I'm on page $60$ and $61$ of the second addition. There are three exercises on proving numbers irrational spanning these pages, the last is as follows.




Exercise $3$: Prove that $phi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is irrational. Try to make up similar and more general examples.




My Attempt:




Lemma: The number $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$ is irrational. (This is part of Exercise 2.)




Proof: Suppose $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=r$ is rational. Then
$$begin{align}
2&=(r-sqrt{3})^2 \
&=r^2-2sqrt{3}+3
end{align}$$
is rational, so that
$$sqrt{3}=frac{r^2+1}{2r}$$ is rational, a contradiction. $square$



Let $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Then, considering $phi$,
$$begin{align}
5&=(phi-psi)^2 \
&=phi^2-psiphi+5+2sqrt{6}.
end{align}$$



I don't know what else to do from here.
My plan is/was to use the Lemma above as the focus for a contradiction, showing $psi$ is rational somehow.



Please help :)



Thoughts:



The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague.





The question is not answered here as far as I can tell.










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 3




    @Wolfram Unlikely, from the chosen reference ...
    – Michael Burr
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:14






  • 1




    @Wolfram A little bit, yes, from Galois Theory and Algebraic Number Theory, but I'm approaching this from Elementary Number Theory, as the title of the book suggests.
    – Shaun
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:15






  • 1




    You can work out the minimal polynomial of your number, it turns out to be $x^8 - 40 x^6 + 352 x^4 - 960 x^2 + 576$ (I did it with Wolfram Alpha, could be done by hand with some effort).
    – lulu
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:17






  • 1




    Using some well known results from field theory one sees that $1, sqrt{2}, sqrt{3}$ and $sqrt{5}$ are members of some basis of $Bbb{Q}[sqrt{2},sqrt{3},sqrt{5}]$ over $Bbb{Q}$. $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ can be uniquely expressed as a linear combination of elements of this basis, so it is irrational.
    – Vik78
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:31






  • 1




    You write "The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague." The question is quite interesting. You may find the following conclusion: "The sum of an arbitrary nimber square roots of prime numbers is irrational." Try to imagine a few other theorems. The lemma in @N.S.'s answer seems to be the most general.
    – Bernard Massé
    Feb 2 '17 at 17:08















up vote
8
down vote

favorite
3












I'm reading R. Courant & H. Robbins' "What is Mathematics: An Elementary Approach to Ideas and Methods" for fun. I'm on page $60$ and $61$ of the second addition. There are three exercises on proving numbers irrational spanning these pages, the last is as follows.




Exercise $3$: Prove that $phi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is irrational. Try to make up similar and more general examples.




My Attempt:




Lemma: The number $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$ is irrational. (This is part of Exercise 2.)




Proof: Suppose $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=r$ is rational. Then
$$begin{align}
2&=(r-sqrt{3})^2 \
&=r^2-2sqrt{3}+3
end{align}$$
is rational, so that
$$sqrt{3}=frac{r^2+1}{2r}$$ is rational, a contradiction. $square$



Let $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Then, considering $phi$,
$$begin{align}
5&=(phi-psi)^2 \
&=phi^2-psiphi+5+2sqrt{6}.
end{align}$$



I don't know what else to do from here.
My plan is/was to use the Lemma above as the focus for a contradiction, showing $psi$ is rational somehow.



Please help :)



Thoughts:



The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague.





The question is not answered here as far as I can tell.










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 3




    @Wolfram Unlikely, from the chosen reference ...
    – Michael Burr
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:14






  • 1




    @Wolfram A little bit, yes, from Galois Theory and Algebraic Number Theory, but I'm approaching this from Elementary Number Theory, as the title of the book suggests.
    – Shaun
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:15






  • 1




    You can work out the minimal polynomial of your number, it turns out to be $x^8 - 40 x^6 + 352 x^4 - 960 x^2 + 576$ (I did it with Wolfram Alpha, could be done by hand with some effort).
    – lulu
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:17






  • 1




    Using some well known results from field theory one sees that $1, sqrt{2}, sqrt{3}$ and $sqrt{5}$ are members of some basis of $Bbb{Q}[sqrt{2},sqrt{3},sqrt{5}]$ over $Bbb{Q}$. $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ can be uniquely expressed as a linear combination of elements of this basis, so it is irrational.
    – Vik78
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:31






  • 1




    You write "The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague." The question is quite interesting. You may find the following conclusion: "The sum of an arbitrary nimber square roots of prime numbers is irrational." Try to imagine a few other theorems. The lemma in @N.S.'s answer seems to be the most general.
    – Bernard Massé
    Feb 2 '17 at 17:08













up vote
8
down vote

favorite
3









up vote
8
down vote

favorite
3






3





I'm reading R. Courant & H. Robbins' "What is Mathematics: An Elementary Approach to Ideas and Methods" for fun. I'm on page $60$ and $61$ of the second addition. There are three exercises on proving numbers irrational spanning these pages, the last is as follows.




Exercise $3$: Prove that $phi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is irrational. Try to make up similar and more general examples.




My Attempt:




Lemma: The number $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$ is irrational. (This is part of Exercise 2.)




Proof: Suppose $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=r$ is rational. Then
$$begin{align}
2&=(r-sqrt{3})^2 \
&=r^2-2sqrt{3}+3
end{align}$$
is rational, so that
$$sqrt{3}=frac{r^2+1}{2r}$$ is rational, a contradiction. $square$



Let $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Then, considering $phi$,
$$begin{align}
5&=(phi-psi)^2 \
&=phi^2-psiphi+5+2sqrt{6}.
end{align}$$



I don't know what else to do from here.
My plan is/was to use the Lemma above as the focus for a contradiction, showing $psi$ is rational somehow.



Please help :)



Thoughts:



The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague.





The question is not answered here as far as I can tell.










share|cite|improve this question















I'm reading R. Courant & H. Robbins' "What is Mathematics: An Elementary Approach to Ideas and Methods" for fun. I'm on page $60$ and $61$ of the second addition. There are three exercises on proving numbers irrational spanning these pages, the last is as follows.




Exercise $3$: Prove that $phi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is irrational. Try to make up similar and more general examples.




My Attempt:




Lemma: The number $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$ is irrational. (This is part of Exercise 2.)




Proof: Suppose $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=r$ is rational. Then
$$begin{align}
2&=(r-sqrt{3})^2 \
&=r^2-2sqrt{3}+3
end{align}$$
is rational, so that
$$sqrt{3}=frac{r^2+1}{2r}$$ is rational, a contradiction. $square$



Let $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}$. Then, considering $phi$,
$$begin{align}
5&=(phi-psi)^2 \
&=phi^2-psiphi+5+2sqrt{6}.
end{align}$$



I don't know what else to do from here.
My plan is/was to use the Lemma above as the focus for a contradiction, showing $psi$ is rational somehow.



Please help :)



Thoughts:



The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague.





The question is not answered here as far as I can tell.







elementary-number-theory






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share|cite|improve this question













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share|cite|improve this question








edited Nov 27 at 16:40

























asked Feb 2 '17 at 15:08









Shaun

8,205113578




8,205113578








  • 3




    @Wolfram Unlikely, from the chosen reference ...
    – Michael Burr
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:14






  • 1




    @Wolfram A little bit, yes, from Galois Theory and Algebraic Number Theory, but I'm approaching this from Elementary Number Theory, as the title of the book suggests.
    – Shaun
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:15






  • 1




    You can work out the minimal polynomial of your number, it turns out to be $x^8 - 40 x^6 + 352 x^4 - 960 x^2 + 576$ (I did it with Wolfram Alpha, could be done by hand with some effort).
    – lulu
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:17






  • 1




    Using some well known results from field theory one sees that $1, sqrt{2}, sqrt{3}$ and $sqrt{5}$ are members of some basis of $Bbb{Q}[sqrt{2},sqrt{3},sqrt{5}]$ over $Bbb{Q}$. $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ can be uniquely expressed as a linear combination of elements of this basis, so it is irrational.
    – Vik78
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:31






  • 1




    You write "The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague." The question is quite interesting. You may find the following conclusion: "The sum of an arbitrary nimber square roots of prime numbers is irrational." Try to imagine a few other theorems. The lemma in @N.S.'s answer seems to be the most general.
    – Bernard Massé
    Feb 2 '17 at 17:08














  • 3




    @Wolfram Unlikely, from the chosen reference ...
    – Michael Burr
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:14






  • 1




    @Wolfram A little bit, yes, from Galois Theory and Algebraic Number Theory, but I'm approaching this from Elementary Number Theory, as the title of the book suggests.
    – Shaun
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:15






  • 1




    You can work out the minimal polynomial of your number, it turns out to be $x^8 - 40 x^6 + 352 x^4 - 960 x^2 + 576$ (I did it with Wolfram Alpha, could be done by hand with some effort).
    – lulu
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:17






  • 1




    Using some well known results from field theory one sees that $1, sqrt{2}, sqrt{3}$ and $sqrt{5}$ are members of some basis of $Bbb{Q}[sqrt{2},sqrt{3},sqrt{5}]$ over $Bbb{Q}$. $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ can be uniquely expressed as a linear combination of elements of this basis, so it is irrational.
    – Vik78
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:31






  • 1




    You write "The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague." The question is quite interesting. You may find the following conclusion: "The sum of an arbitrary nimber square roots of prime numbers is irrational." Try to imagine a few other theorems. The lemma in @N.S.'s answer seems to be the most general.
    – Bernard Massé
    Feb 2 '17 at 17:08








3




3




@Wolfram Unlikely, from the chosen reference ...
– Michael Burr
Feb 2 '17 at 15:14




@Wolfram Unlikely, from the chosen reference ...
– Michael Burr
Feb 2 '17 at 15:14




1




1




@Wolfram A little bit, yes, from Galois Theory and Algebraic Number Theory, but I'm approaching this from Elementary Number Theory, as the title of the book suggests.
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:15




@Wolfram A little bit, yes, from Galois Theory and Algebraic Number Theory, but I'm approaching this from Elementary Number Theory, as the title of the book suggests.
– Shaun
Feb 2 '17 at 15:15




1




1




You can work out the minimal polynomial of your number, it turns out to be $x^8 - 40 x^6 + 352 x^4 - 960 x^2 + 576$ (I did it with Wolfram Alpha, could be done by hand with some effort).
– lulu
Feb 2 '17 at 15:17




You can work out the minimal polynomial of your number, it turns out to be $x^8 - 40 x^6 + 352 x^4 - 960 x^2 + 576$ (I did it with Wolfram Alpha, could be done by hand with some effort).
– lulu
Feb 2 '17 at 15:17




1




1




Using some well known results from field theory one sees that $1, sqrt{2}, sqrt{3}$ and $sqrt{5}$ are members of some basis of $Bbb{Q}[sqrt{2},sqrt{3},sqrt{5}]$ over $Bbb{Q}$. $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ can be uniquely expressed as a linear combination of elements of this basis, so it is irrational.
– Vik78
Feb 2 '17 at 15:31




Using some well known results from field theory one sees that $1, sqrt{2}, sqrt{3}$ and $sqrt{5}$ are members of some basis of $Bbb{Q}[sqrt{2},sqrt{3},sqrt{5}]$ over $Bbb{Q}$. $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ can be uniquely expressed as a linear combination of elements of this basis, so it is irrational.
– Vik78
Feb 2 '17 at 15:31




1




1




You write "The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague." The question is quite interesting. You may find the following conclusion: "The sum of an arbitrary nimber square roots of prime numbers is irrational." Try to imagine a few other theorems. The lemma in @N.S.'s answer seems to be the most general.
– Bernard Massé
Feb 2 '17 at 17:08




You write "The "try to make up similar and more general examples" bit is a little vague." The question is quite interesting. You may find the following conclusion: "The sum of an arbitrary nimber square roots of prime numbers is irrational." Try to imagine a few other theorems. The lemma in @N.S.'s answer seems to be the most general.
– Bernard Massé
Feb 2 '17 at 17:08










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
10
down vote



accepted










Hint:



Assume by contradiction that $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is rational. Then
$$(psi-sqrt{5})^2=(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2 \
psi^2-2sqrt{5}psi+5=5+2sqrt{6} \
psi^2=2sqrt{6} +2sqrt{5}psi\
$$



Square it one more time, and you reach the contradiction.



For the general case, here is a nice trivial solution from Kvant: prove the following lemma:



Lemma If $a_1,a_2,..,a_k$ are distinct integers $geq 2$, none of which is divisible by a square, and $b_1,..,b_n$ are integers such that
$$b_1sqrt{a_1}+...+b_nsqrt{a_n} in mathbb Q$$
then $b_1=...=b_n=0$.



Proof: Do induction by the number $m$ of primes which divide $a_1...a_n$.



The inductive step $P(m)Rightarrow P(m+1)$ is done by contradiction: move all terms for which $a_k$ is divisible by the $p_{m+1}$ on one side, everything else on the other side and square, to end in the case $P_m$.






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  • It should be +2 sqrt 5 psi
    – user236182
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:35




















up vote
10
down vote













Okay, if $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=rinmathbb Q$, then:
$$(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2=(r-sqrt{5})^2$$
$$2+2sqrt6+3=r^2-2sqrt5 r+5$$
$$2sqrt6=r^2-2sqrt5 r$$
Square this once again and you obtain that $sqrt5$ is rational, which is a contradiction.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Ah, of course! Thank you! $ddotsmile$
    – Shaun
    Feb 2 '17 at 15:19


















up vote
5
down vote













We assume we have
$$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{m}{n}$$ with $gcd(m,n)=1$. We write
$$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=frac{m}{n}-sqrt{5};$$
squaring, we have
$$2sqrt{6}=frac{m^2}{n^2}-2frac{m}{n}sqrt{5};$$
and squaring once again then simplifying, we arrive at
$$5frac{n}{m}+frac{m}{4n}-6frac{n^3}{m^3}=sqrt{5}.$$



This is a contradiction, since we have on the left only rational numbers and on the right side an irrational number.






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    up vote
    2
    down vote













    An alternative solution. Assume that $alpha=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{a}{b}inmathbb{Q}$. By quadratic reciprocity, there is some prime $p>b$ such that $3$ and $5$ are quadratic residues $!!pmod{p}$ while $2$ is not. That implies that $alpha$ is an algebraic number over $mathbb{K}=mathbb{F}_p$ with degree $2$, since $sqrt{2}$ does not belong to $mathbb{K}$ but belongs to a quadratic extension of $mathbb{K}$. On the other hand $b<p$ ensures that $b$ is an invertible element $!!pmod{p}$ and $alphainmathbb{K}$, contradiction.



    This proof has a straightforward generalization: the sum of the square roots of some prime numbers is never a rational number.






    share|cite|improve this answer




























      up vote
      2
      down vote













      Use these properties of rational numbers:




      1. If $x$ is rational then $x^2$ is also rational.

      2. Sum of a rational number and an irrational number is irrational.


      Let's suppose $x = sqrt 2 + sqrt 3$ is rational. Then $x^2 = 5 + 2 sqrt 6$ (which is irrational using the second property).



      Using the first property, $x$ also becomes irrational.



      Now using the second property we can say that since $x(sqrt 2 + sqrt 3)$ is irrational, irrespective of whether $sqrt 5$ is rational or irrational using the second property, the total sum will be irrational. Thus $sqrt 2 + sqrt 3 + sqrt 5$ is irrational.






      share|cite|improve this answer



















      • 1




        Here's a MathJax tutorial.
        – Shaun
        Feb 2 '17 at 15:24










      • Hi. Your post could use some layout, you can read on the mathjax tutorial how to layout the math.
        – mathreadler
        Feb 2 '17 at 17:30












      • Cut him some slack, he's new. But he'll be expected to start doing it himself as time goes on.
        – Mr. Brooks
        Feb 4 '17 at 22:34










      • Thanks Sir for the edit.I am new and I am trying to learn stuffs
        – Abhishek Kumar
        Feb 5 '17 at 5:24











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      5 Answers
      5






      active

      oldest

      votes








      5 Answers
      5






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      10
      down vote



      accepted










      Hint:



      Assume by contradiction that $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is rational. Then
      $$(psi-sqrt{5})^2=(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2 \
      psi^2-2sqrt{5}psi+5=5+2sqrt{6} \
      psi^2=2sqrt{6} +2sqrt{5}psi\
      $$



      Square it one more time, and you reach the contradiction.



      For the general case, here is a nice trivial solution from Kvant: prove the following lemma:



      Lemma If $a_1,a_2,..,a_k$ are distinct integers $geq 2$, none of which is divisible by a square, and $b_1,..,b_n$ are integers such that
      $$b_1sqrt{a_1}+...+b_nsqrt{a_n} in mathbb Q$$
      then $b_1=...=b_n=0$.



      Proof: Do induction by the number $m$ of primes which divide $a_1...a_n$.



      The inductive step $P(m)Rightarrow P(m+1)$ is done by contradiction: move all terms for which $a_k$ is divisible by the $p_{m+1}$ on one side, everything else on the other side and square, to end in the case $P_m$.






      share|cite|improve this answer























      • It should be +2 sqrt 5 psi
        – user236182
        Feb 2 '17 at 15:35

















      up vote
      10
      down vote



      accepted










      Hint:



      Assume by contradiction that $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is rational. Then
      $$(psi-sqrt{5})^2=(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2 \
      psi^2-2sqrt{5}psi+5=5+2sqrt{6} \
      psi^2=2sqrt{6} +2sqrt{5}psi\
      $$



      Square it one more time, and you reach the contradiction.



      For the general case, here is a nice trivial solution from Kvant: prove the following lemma:



      Lemma If $a_1,a_2,..,a_k$ are distinct integers $geq 2$, none of which is divisible by a square, and $b_1,..,b_n$ are integers such that
      $$b_1sqrt{a_1}+...+b_nsqrt{a_n} in mathbb Q$$
      then $b_1=...=b_n=0$.



      Proof: Do induction by the number $m$ of primes which divide $a_1...a_n$.



      The inductive step $P(m)Rightarrow P(m+1)$ is done by contradiction: move all terms for which $a_k$ is divisible by the $p_{m+1}$ on one side, everything else on the other side and square, to end in the case $P_m$.






      share|cite|improve this answer























      • It should be +2 sqrt 5 psi
        – user236182
        Feb 2 '17 at 15:35















      up vote
      10
      down vote



      accepted







      up vote
      10
      down vote



      accepted






      Hint:



      Assume by contradiction that $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is rational. Then
      $$(psi-sqrt{5})^2=(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2 \
      psi^2-2sqrt{5}psi+5=5+2sqrt{6} \
      psi^2=2sqrt{6} +2sqrt{5}psi\
      $$



      Square it one more time, and you reach the contradiction.



      For the general case, here is a nice trivial solution from Kvant: prove the following lemma:



      Lemma If $a_1,a_2,..,a_k$ are distinct integers $geq 2$, none of which is divisible by a square, and $b_1,..,b_n$ are integers such that
      $$b_1sqrt{a_1}+...+b_nsqrt{a_n} in mathbb Q$$
      then $b_1=...=b_n=0$.



      Proof: Do induction by the number $m$ of primes which divide $a_1...a_n$.



      The inductive step $P(m)Rightarrow P(m+1)$ is done by contradiction: move all terms for which $a_k$ is divisible by the $p_{m+1}$ on one side, everything else on the other side and square, to end in the case $P_m$.






      share|cite|improve this answer














      Hint:



      Assume by contradiction that $psi=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}$ is rational. Then
      $$(psi-sqrt{5})^2=(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2 \
      psi^2-2sqrt{5}psi+5=5+2sqrt{6} \
      psi^2=2sqrt{6} +2sqrt{5}psi\
      $$



      Square it one more time, and you reach the contradiction.



      For the general case, here is a nice trivial solution from Kvant: prove the following lemma:



      Lemma If $a_1,a_2,..,a_k$ are distinct integers $geq 2$, none of which is divisible by a square, and $b_1,..,b_n$ are integers such that
      $$b_1sqrt{a_1}+...+b_nsqrt{a_n} in mathbb Q$$
      then $b_1=...=b_n=0$.



      Proof: Do induction by the number $m$ of primes which divide $a_1...a_n$.



      The inductive step $P(m)Rightarrow P(m+1)$ is done by contradiction: move all terms for which $a_k$ is divisible by the $p_{m+1}$ on one side, everything else on the other side and square, to end in the case $P_m$.







      share|cite|improve this answer














      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer








      edited Feb 2 '17 at 15:49

























      answered Feb 2 '17 at 15:23









      N. S.

      101k5108203




      101k5108203












      • It should be +2 sqrt 5 psi
        – user236182
        Feb 2 '17 at 15:35




















      • It should be +2 sqrt 5 psi
        – user236182
        Feb 2 '17 at 15:35


















      It should be +2 sqrt 5 psi
      – user236182
      Feb 2 '17 at 15:35






      It should be +2 sqrt 5 psi
      – user236182
      Feb 2 '17 at 15:35












      up vote
      10
      down vote













      Okay, if $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=rinmathbb Q$, then:
      $$(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2=(r-sqrt{5})^2$$
      $$2+2sqrt6+3=r^2-2sqrt5 r+5$$
      $$2sqrt6=r^2-2sqrt5 r$$
      Square this once again and you obtain that $sqrt5$ is rational, which is a contradiction.






      share|cite|improve this answer





















      • Ah, of course! Thank you! $ddotsmile$
        – Shaun
        Feb 2 '17 at 15:19















      up vote
      10
      down vote













      Okay, if $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=rinmathbb Q$, then:
      $$(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2=(r-sqrt{5})^2$$
      $$2+2sqrt6+3=r^2-2sqrt5 r+5$$
      $$2sqrt6=r^2-2sqrt5 r$$
      Square this once again and you obtain that $sqrt5$ is rational, which is a contradiction.






      share|cite|improve this answer





















      • Ah, of course! Thank you! $ddotsmile$
        – Shaun
        Feb 2 '17 at 15:19













      up vote
      10
      down vote










      up vote
      10
      down vote









      Okay, if $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=rinmathbb Q$, then:
      $$(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2=(r-sqrt{5})^2$$
      $$2+2sqrt6+3=r^2-2sqrt5 r+5$$
      $$2sqrt6=r^2-2sqrt5 r$$
      Square this once again and you obtain that $sqrt5$ is rational, which is a contradiction.






      share|cite|improve this answer












      Okay, if $sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=rinmathbb Q$, then:
      $$(sqrt{2}+sqrt{3})^2=(r-sqrt{5})^2$$
      $$2+2sqrt6+3=r^2-2sqrt5 r+5$$
      $$2sqrt6=r^2-2sqrt5 r$$
      Square this once again and you obtain that $sqrt5$ is rational, which is a contradiction.







      share|cite|improve this answer












      share|cite|improve this answer



      share|cite|improve this answer










      answered Feb 2 '17 at 15:17









      Wolfram

      1,840212




      1,840212












      • Ah, of course! Thank you! $ddotsmile$
        – Shaun
        Feb 2 '17 at 15:19


















      • Ah, of course! Thank you! $ddotsmile$
        – Shaun
        Feb 2 '17 at 15:19
















      Ah, of course! Thank you! $ddotsmile$
      – Shaun
      Feb 2 '17 at 15:19




      Ah, of course! Thank you! $ddotsmile$
      – Shaun
      Feb 2 '17 at 15:19










      up vote
      5
      down vote













      We assume we have
      $$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{m}{n}$$ with $gcd(m,n)=1$. We write
      $$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=frac{m}{n}-sqrt{5};$$
      squaring, we have
      $$2sqrt{6}=frac{m^2}{n^2}-2frac{m}{n}sqrt{5};$$
      and squaring once again then simplifying, we arrive at
      $$5frac{n}{m}+frac{m}{4n}-6frac{n^3}{m^3}=sqrt{5}.$$



      This is a contradiction, since we have on the left only rational numbers and on the right side an irrational number.






      share|cite|improve this answer



























        up vote
        5
        down vote













        We assume we have
        $$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{m}{n}$$ with $gcd(m,n)=1$. We write
        $$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=frac{m}{n}-sqrt{5};$$
        squaring, we have
        $$2sqrt{6}=frac{m^2}{n^2}-2frac{m}{n}sqrt{5};$$
        and squaring once again then simplifying, we arrive at
        $$5frac{n}{m}+frac{m}{4n}-6frac{n^3}{m^3}=sqrt{5}.$$



        This is a contradiction, since we have on the left only rational numbers and on the right side an irrational number.






        share|cite|improve this answer

























          up vote
          5
          down vote










          up vote
          5
          down vote









          We assume we have
          $$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{m}{n}$$ with $gcd(m,n)=1$. We write
          $$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=frac{m}{n}-sqrt{5};$$
          squaring, we have
          $$2sqrt{6}=frac{m^2}{n^2}-2frac{m}{n}sqrt{5};$$
          and squaring once again then simplifying, we arrive at
          $$5frac{n}{m}+frac{m}{4n}-6frac{n^3}{m^3}=sqrt{5}.$$



          This is a contradiction, since we have on the left only rational numbers and on the right side an irrational number.






          share|cite|improve this answer














          We assume we have
          $$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{m}{n}$$ with $gcd(m,n)=1$. We write
          $$sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}=frac{m}{n}-sqrt{5};$$
          squaring, we have
          $$2sqrt{6}=frac{m^2}{n^2}-2frac{m}{n}sqrt{5};$$
          and squaring once again then simplifying, we arrive at
          $$5frac{n}{m}+frac{m}{4n}-6frac{n^3}{m^3}=sqrt{5}.$$



          This is a contradiction, since we have on the left only rational numbers and on the right side an irrational number.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Feb 2 '17 at 15:23









          Shaun

          8,205113578




          8,205113578










          answered Feb 2 '17 at 15:20









          Dr. Sonnhard Graubner

          72.2k32865




          72.2k32865






















              up vote
              2
              down vote













              An alternative solution. Assume that $alpha=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{a}{b}inmathbb{Q}$. By quadratic reciprocity, there is some prime $p>b$ such that $3$ and $5$ are quadratic residues $!!pmod{p}$ while $2$ is not. That implies that $alpha$ is an algebraic number over $mathbb{K}=mathbb{F}_p$ with degree $2$, since $sqrt{2}$ does not belong to $mathbb{K}$ but belongs to a quadratic extension of $mathbb{K}$. On the other hand $b<p$ ensures that $b$ is an invertible element $!!pmod{p}$ and $alphainmathbb{K}$, contradiction.



              This proof has a straightforward generalization: the sum of the square roots of some prime numbers is never a rational number.






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                2
                down vote













                An alternative solution. Assume that $alpha=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{a}{b}inmathbb{Q}$. By quadratic reciprocity, there is some prime $p>b$ such that $3$ and $5$ are quadratic residues $!!pmod{p}$ while $2$ is not. That implies that $alpha$ is an algebraic number over $mathbb{K}=mathbb{F}_p$ with degree $2$, since $sqrt{2}$ does not belong to $mathbb{K}$ but belongs to a quadratic extension of $mathbb{K}$. On the other hand $b<p$ ensures that $b$ is an invertible element $!!pmod{p}$ and $alphainmathbb{K}$, contradiction.



                This proof has a straightforward generalization: the sum of the square roots of some prime numbers is never a rational number.






                share|cite|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote









                  An alternative solution. Assume that $alpha=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{a}{b}inmathbb{Q}$. By quadratic reciprocity, there is some prime $p>b$ such that $3$ and $5$ are quadratic residues $!!pmod{p}$ while $2$ is not. That implies that $alpha$ is an algebraic number over $mathbb{K}=mathbb{F}_p$ with degree $2$, since $sqrt{2}$ does not belong to $mathbb{K}$ but belongs to a quadratic extension of $mathbb{K}$. On the other hand $b<p$ ensures that $b$ is an invertible element $!!pmod{p}$ and $alphainmathbb{K}$, contradiction.



                  This proof has a straightforward generalization: the sum of the square roots of some prime numbers is never a rational number.






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  An alternative solution. Assume that $alpha=sqrt{2}+sqrt{3}+sqrt{5}=frac{a}{b}inmathbb{Q}$. By quadratic reciprocity, there is some prime $p>b$ such that $3$ and $5$ are quadratic residues $!!pmod{p}$ while $2$ is not. That implies that $alpha$ is an algebraic number over $mathbb{K}=mathbb{F}_p$ with degree $2$, since $sqrt{2}$ does not belong to $mathbb{K}$ but belongs to a quadratic extension of $mathbb{K}$. On the other hand $b<p$ ensures that $b$ is an invertible element $!!pmod{p}$ and $alphainmathbb{K}$, contradiction.



                  This proof has a straightforward generalization: the sum of the square roots of some prime numbers is never a rational number.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Feb 2 '17 at 16:45









                  Jack D'Aurizio

                  285k33275654




                  285k33275654






















                      up vote
                      2
                      down vote













                      Use these properties of rational numbers:




                      1. If $x$ is rational then $x^2$ is also rational.

                      2. Sum of a rational number and an irrational number is irrational.


                      Let's suppose $x = sqrt 2 + sqrt 3$ is rational. Then $x^2 = 5 + 2 sqrt 6$ (which is irrational using the second property).



                      Using the first property, $x$ also becomes irrational.



                      Now using the second property we can say that since $x(sqrt 2 + sqrt 3)$ is irrational, irrespective of whether $sqrt 5$ is rational or irrational using the second property, the total sum will be irrational. Thus $sqrt 2 + sqrt 3 + sqrt 5$ is irrational.






                      share|cite|improve this answer



















                      • 1




                        Here's a MathJax tutorial.
                        – Shaun
                        Feb 2 '17 at 15:24










                      • Hi. Your post could use some layout, you can read on the mathjax tutorial how to layout the math.
                        – mathreadler
                        Feb 2 '17 at 17:30












                      • Cut him some slack, he's new. But he'll be expected to start doing it himself as time goes on.
                        – Mr. Brooks
                        Feb 4 '17 at 22:34










                      • Thanks Sir for the edit.I am new and I am trying to learn stuffs
                        – Abhishek Kumar
                        Feb 5 '17 at 5:24















                      up vote
                      2
                      down vote













                      Use these properties of rational numbers:




                      1. If $x$ is rational then $x^2$ is also rational.

                      2. Sum of a rational number and an irrational number is irrational.


                      Let's suppose $x = sqrt 2 + sqrt 3$ is rational. Then $x^2 = 5 + 2 sqrt 6$ (which is irrational using the second property).



                      Using the first property, $x$ also becomes irrational.



                      Now using the second property we can say that since $x(sqrt 2 + sqrt 3)$ is irrational, irrespective of whether $sqrt 5$ is rational or irrational using the second property, the total sum will be irrational. Thus $sqrt 2 + sqrt 3 + sqrt 5$ is irrational.






                      share|cite|improve this answer



















                      • 1




                        Here's a MathJax tutorial.
                        – Shaun
                        Feb 2 '17 at 15:24










                      • Hi. Your post could use some layout, you can read on the mathjax tutorial how to layout the math.
                        – mathreadler
                        Feb 2 '17 at 17:30












                      • Cut him some slack, he's new. But he'll be expected to start doing it himself as time goes on.
                        – Mr. Brooks
                        Feb 4 '17 at 22:34










                      • Thanks Sir for the edit.I am new and I am trying to learn stuffs
                        – Abhishek Kumar
                        Feb 5 '17 at 5:24













                      up vote
                      2
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      2
                      down vote









                      Use these properties of rational numbers:




                      1. If $x$ is rational then $x^2$ is also rational.

                      2. Sum of a rational number and an irrational number is irrational.


                      Let's suppose $x = sqrt 2 + sqrt 3$ is rational. Then $x^2 = 5 + 2 sqrt 6$ (which is irrational using the second property).



                      Using the first property, $x$ also becomes irrational.



                      Now using the second property we can say that since $x(sqrt 2 + sqrt 3)$ is irrational, irrespective of whether $sqrt 5$ is rational or irrational using the second property, the total sum will be irrational. Thus $sqrt 2 + sqrt 3 + sqrt 5$ is irrational.






                      share|cite|improve this answer














                      Use these properties of rational numbers:




                      1. If $x$ is rational then $x^2$ is also rational.

                      2. Sum of a rational number and an irrational number is irrational.


                      Let's suppose $x = sqrt 2 + sqrt 3$ is rational. Then $x^2 = 5 + 2 sqrt 6$ (which is irrational using the second property).



                      Using the first property, $x$ also becomes irrational.



                      Now using the second property we can say that since $x(sqrt 2 + sqrt 3)$ is irrational, irrespective of whether $sqrt 5$ is rational or irrational using the second property, the total sum will be irrational. Thus $sqrt 2 + sqrt 3 + sqrt 5$ is irrational.







                      share|cite|improve this answer














                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer








                      edited Feb 4 '17 at 22:51









                      Mr. Brooks

                      31811237




                      31811237










                      answered Feb 2 '17 at 15:19









                      Abhishek Kumar

                      292




                      292








                      • 1




                        Here's a MathJax tutorial.
                        – Shaun
                        Feb 2 '17 at 15:24










                      • Hi. Your post could use some layout, you can read on the mathjax tutorial how to layout the math.
                        – mathreadler
                        Feb 2 '17 at 17:30












                      • Cut him some slack, he's new. But he'll be expected to start doing it himself as time goes on.
                        – Mr. Brooks
                        Feb 4 '17 at 22:34










                      • Thanks Sir for the edit.I am new and I am trying to learn stuffs
                        – Abhishek Kumar
                        Feb 5 '17 at 5:24














                      • 1




                        Here's a MathJax tutorial.
                        – Shaun
                        Feb 2 '17 at 15:24










                      • Hi. Your post could use some layout, you can read on the mathjax tutorial how to layout the math.
                        – mathreadler
                        Feb 2 '17 at 17:30












                      • Cut him some slack, he's new. But he'll be expected to start doing it himself as time goes on.
                        – Mr. Brooks
                        Feb 4 '17 at 22:34










                      • Thanks Sir for the edit.I am new and I am trying to learn stuffs
                        – Abhishek Kumar
                        Feb 5 '17 at 5:24








                      1




                      1




                      Here's a MathJax tutorial.
                      – Shaun
                      Feb 2 '17 at 15:24




                      Here's a MathJax tutorial.
                      – Shaun
                      Feb 2 '17 at 15:24












                      Hi. Your post could use some layout, you can read on the mathjax tutorial how to layout the math.
                      – mathreadler
                      Feb 2 '17 at 17:30






                      Hi. Your post could use some layout, you can read on the mathjax tutorial how to layout the math.
                      – mathreadler
                      Feb 2 '17 at 17:30














                      Cut him some slack, he's new. But he'll be expected to start doing it himself as time goes on.
                      – Mr. Brooks
                      Feb 4 '17 at 22:34




                      Cut him some slack, he's new. But he'll be expected to start doing it himself as time goes on.
                      – Mr. Brooks
                      Feb 4 '17 at 22:34












                      Thanks Sir for the edit.I am new and I am trying to learn stuffs
                      – Abhishek Kumar
                      Feb 5 '17 at 5:24




                      Thanks Sir for the edit.I am new and I am trying to learn stuffs
                      – Abhishek Kumar
                      Feb 5 '17 at 5:24


















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