Reductio ad absurdum, but just once












3












$begingroup$


Can we prove that $exists x lnot F$ follows from $lnot forall x F$ by natural deduction using the intuitionistic rules, and RAA (reductio ad absurdum) just once?



It is usually done by using RAA twice on the assumptions $lnot F$ and $lnot exists x lnot F$. I know that $forall x F$ doesn't follow from $lnot exists x lnot F$ in intuitionistic logic, so we cannot derive $exists x lnot F$ from $forall x F, lnot forall x F$. Moreover, if we introduced $exists x lnot F$ by RAA, we would have to derive $bot$ from $lnot exists x lnot F, lnot forall x F$; if we introduced $exists x lnot F$ by $exists$-intro, we would have to derive $lnot F$ from $lnot forall x F$ using RAA just once, which seems not quite likely... In both cases I don't know how to proceed.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    It seems to me that it shouldn't be possible if you're just using RAA on $exists x. neg F$. It's a bit fuzzy for me, but if I recall correctly, the existence property for intuitionistic FOL (since we've already used our one alotted instance of RAA, we're working in intutionistic logic from this point onward) should imply that $neg forall x. F, neg exists x. neg F notvdash exists x. neg F$. Of course, that doesn't rule out a more creative use of RAA, but I don't see how it can be done.
    $endgroup$
    – user181407
    Feb 11 '17 at 21:45
















3












$begingroup$


Can we prove that $exists x lnot F$ follows from $lnot forall x F$ by natural deduction using the intuitionistic rules, and RAA (reductio ad absurdum) just once?



It is usually done by using RAA twice on the assumptions $lnot F$ and $lnot exists x lnot F$. I know that $forall x F$ doesn't follow from $lnot exists x lnot F$ in intuitionistic logic, so we cannot derive $exists x lnot F$ from $forall x F, lnot forall x F$. Moreover, if we introduced $exists x lnot F$ by RAA, we would have to derive $bot$ from $lnot exists x lnot F, lnot forall x F$; if we introduced $exists x lnot F$ by $exists$-intro, we would have to derive $lnot F$ from $lnot forall x F$ using RAA just once, which seems not quite likely... In both cases I don't know how to proceed.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    It seems to me that it shouldn't be possible if you're just using RAA on $exists x. neg F$. It's a bit fuzzy for me, but if I recall correctly, the existence property for intuitionistic FOL (since we've already used our one alotted instance of RAA, we're working in intutionistic logic from this point onward) should imply that $neg forall x. F, neg exists x. neg F notvdash exists x. neg F$. Of course, that doesn't rule out a more creative use of RAA, but I don't see how it can be done.
    $endgroup$
    – user181407
    Feb 11 '17 at 21:45














3












3








3





$begingroup$


Can we prove that $exists x lnot F$ follows from $lnot forall x F$ by natural deduction using the intuitionistic rules, and RAA (reductio ad absurdum) just once?



It is usually done by using RAA twice on the assumptions $lnot F$ and $lnot exists x lnot F$. I know that $forall x F$ doesn't follow from $lnot exists x lnot F$ in intuitionistic logic, so we cannot derive $exists x lnot F$ from $forall x F, lnot forall x F$. Moreover, if we introduced $exists x lnot F$ by RAA, we would have to derive $bot$ from $lnot exists x lnot F, lnot forall x F$; if we introduced $exists x lnot F$ by $exists$-intro, we would have to derive $lnot F$ from $lnot forall x F$ using RAA just once, which seems not quite likely... In both cases I don't know how to proceed.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$




Can we prove that $exists x lnot F$ follows from $lnot forall x F$ by natural deduction using the intuitionistic rules, and RAA (reductio ad absurdum) just once?



It is usually done by using RAA twice on the assumptions $lnot F$ and $lnot exists x lnot F$. I know that $forall x F$ doesn't follow from $lnot exists x lnot F$ in intuitionistic logic, so we cannot derive $exists x lnot F$ from $forall x F, lnot forall x F$. Moreover, if we introduced $exists x lnot F$ by RAA, we would have to derive $bot$ from $lnot exists x lnot F, lnot forall x F$; if we introduced $exists x lnot F$ by $exists$-intro, we would have to derive $lnot F$ from $lnot forall x F$ using RAA just once, which seems not quite likely... In both cases I don't know how to proceed.







logic natural-deduction intuitionistic-logic






share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked Feb 7 '17 at 10:17









kylekyle

866




866












  • $begingroup$
    It seems to me that it shouldn't be possible if you're just using RAA on $exists x. neg F$. It's a bit fuzzy for me, but if I recall correctly, the existence property for intuitionistic FOL (since we've already used our one alotted instance of RAA, we're working in intutionistic logic from this point onward) should imply that $neg forall x. F, neg exists x. neg F notvdash exists x. neg F$. Of course, that doesn't rule out a more creative use of RAA, but I don't see how it can be done.
    $endgroup$
    – user181407
    Feb 11 '17 at 21:45


















  • $begingroup$
    It seems to me that it shouldn't be possible if you're just using RAA on $exists x. neg F$. It's a bit fuzzy for me, but if I recall correctly, the existence property for intuitionistic FOL (since we've already used our one alotted instance of RAA, we're working in intutionistic logic from this point onward) should imply that $neg forall x. F, neg exists x. neg F notvdash exists x. neg F$. Of course, that doesn't rule out a more creative use of RAA, but I don't see how it can be done.
    $endgroup$
    – user181407
    Feb 11 '17 at 21:45
















$begingroup$
It seems to me that it shouldn't be possible if you're just using RAA on $exists x. neg F$. It's a bit fuzzy for me, but if I recall correctly, the existence property for intuitionistic FOL (since we've already used our one alotted instance of RAA, we're working in intutionistic logic from this point onward) should imply that $neg forall x. F, neg exists x. neg F notvdash exists x. neg F$. Of course, that doesn't rule out a more creative use of RAA, but I don't see how it can be done.
$endgroup$
– user181407
Feb 11 '17 at 21:45




$begingroup$
It seems to me that it shouldn't be possible if you're just using RAA on $exists x. neg F$. It's a bit fuzzy for me, but if I recall correctly, the existence property for intuitionistic FOL (since we've already used our one alotted instance of RAA, we're working in intutionistic logic from this point onward) should imply that $neg forall x. F, neg exists x. neg F notvdash exists x. neg F$. Of course, that doesn't rule out a more creative use of RAA, but I don't see how it can be done.
$endgroup$
– user181407
Feb 11 '17 at 21:45










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















2












$begingroup$

You cannot derive $lnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$ in an intuitionistic system without RAA. This is because there is a Soundness Theorem for intuitionistic logic with respect to Kripke Semantics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kripke_semantics#Semantics_of_intuitionistic_logic; I spell them out a bit below): if we could derive that implication using the rules (without RAA), then the formula would be valid in all Kripke Models. However, we can construct a counter-example in which $lnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$ does not hold, so it cannot be derived.



Consider the following Kripke Structure $mathcal{K} = (K, leq, D, Vdash)$:



enter image description here



Since $0leq1$, $1notVdash F(b)$ and $bin D(1)$, we have $0notVdashforall x F(x)$, and also $1notVdashforall x F(x)$, so $0Vdash lnotforall x F(x)$. But at 0, there is no $din D(0)$ satisfying $lnot F(d)$, so $0notVdashexists x lnot F(x)$. Hence, $0notVdashlnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$.





In case you're unfamiliar with Kripke Structures. $(K, leq)$ is a partially ordered set where you can consider the elements of $K$ to be "states of knowledge": at each stage $kin K$ we "know" some theorems but perhaps not others, which may be proved or refuted at a later stage $k' geq k$. Each state has a domain of objects, $D(k)$, and $Vdash$ tells us which sentences hold at each node.



Two observations:




  1. Objects do not "disappear" once constructed: $k leq k' implies D(k) subset D(k')$.

  2. Proved theorems remain proved: $k Vdashvarphi implies k' Vdashvarphi$ for all $k' geq k$.


(You can easily see that the example above satisfies these conditions.)



We can now stipulate the conditions under which $k Vdashvarphi$:





  • $kVdash F(d) iff$ $F(d)$ holds at $k$ and $din D(k)$;


  • $kVdash lnotvarphi iff$ for all $k'geq k$, $k'notVdashvarphi$;


  • $kVdash varphilandpsi iff kVdashvarphi text{ and } kVdashpsi$;


  • $kVdash varphilorpsi iff kVdashvarphi text{ or } kVdashpsi$;


  • $k Vdash varphirightarrowpsi iff $ for all $k' geq k$, $k'Vdashvarphi$ implies $k'Vdashpsi$;


  • $kVdashforall x F(x) iff $ for all $k' geq k$ and all $din D(k')$, $k'Vdash F(d)$;


  • $kVdashexists x F(x) iff $ there is a $din D(k)$ such that $kVdash F(d)$;


We say that a formula $varphi$ is Kripke valid if, for all Kripke Structures $mathcal{K} = (K, D, Vdash)$ and all $kin K$, $kVdashvarphi$, and we write "$Vdashvarphi$". Writing "$vdash_ivarphi$" for "$varphi$ is intuitionistically provable", we have




Soundness Theorem If $vdash_ivarphi$, then $Vdashvarphi$.




Hence, since we showed that $notVdashlnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$ (by providing a Kripke Structure as a counter-example), it follows from the Soundness Theorem that $notvdash_ilnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists x lnot F(x)$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I interpreted the question regarding "only one RAA" as meaning: could you prove something along the lines of $lnot forall x, F(x) rightarrow lnotlnot exists x, lnot F(x)$. (For which my counterexample in a Heyting algebra model - which I'm much more familiar with personally - would be: Heyting algebra is open subsets of $mathbb{R}$, domain of discourse is $mathbb{R}$, $F(x) = mathbb{R} setminus { x }$.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    Dec 6 '18 at 0:32










  • $begingroup$
    In the above structure we also have $0Vdashlnotlnotexists x lnot F(x)$, so it serves as a counter-example to both implications.
    $endgroup$
    – ryan221b
    Dec 6 '18 at 2:04










  • $begingroup$
    If $0 Vdash lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$ then how is it a counterexample to $lnot forall x F(x) rightarrow lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$?
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    Dec 6 '18 at 4:26










  • $begingroup$
    I meant $0notVdashlnotlnotexists x not F(x)$, but I don't think that actually holds in my example now, I'll need a different counterexample.
    $endgroup$
    – ryan221b
    Dec 6 '18 at 11:11






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    How about: $mathbb{P} = (mathbb{N}, le)$; $D(k) = mathbb{N}$ for all $k$; and $k Vdash F(n)$ if and only if $k ge n$. If I'm not mistaken, in this example, $0 Vdash lnot forall x F(x)$ but $0 notVdash lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$ (and in fact $0 Vdash lnot exists x lnot F(x)$). But I'm not that confident in my computations here...
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    Dec 6 '18 at 18:12











Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});














draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2133146%2freductio-ad-absurdum-but-just-once%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









2












$begingroup$

You cannot derive $lnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$ in an intuitionistic system without RAA. This is because there is a Soundness Theorem for intuitionistic logic with respect to Kripke Semantics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kripke_semantics#Semantics_of_intuitionistic_logic; I spell them out a bit below): if we could derive that implication using the rules (without RAA), then the formula would be valid in all Kripke Models. However, we can construct a counter-example in which $lnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$ does not hold, so it cannot be derived.



Consider the following Kripke Structure $mathcal{K} = (K, leq, D, Vdash)$:



enter image description here



Since $0leq1$, $1notVdash F(b)$ and $bin D(1)$, we have $0notVdashforall x F(x)$, and also $1notVdashforall x F(x)$, so $0Vdash lnotforall x F(x)$. But at 0, there is no $din D(0)$ satisfying $lnot F(d)$, so $0notVdashexists x lnot F(x)$. Hence, $0notVdashlnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$.





In case you're unfamiliar with Kripke Structures. $(K, leq)$ is a partially ordered set where you can consider the elements of $K$ to be "states of knowledge": at each stage $kin K$ we "know" some theorems but perhaps not others, which may be proved or refuted at a later stage $k' geq k$. Each state has a domain of objects, $D(k)$, and $Vdash$ tells us which sentences hold at each node.



Two observations:




  1. Objects do not "disappear" once constructed: $k leq k' implies D(k) subset D(k')$.

  2. Proved theorems remain proved: $k Vdashvarphi implies k' Vdashvarphi$ for all $k' geq k$.


(You can easily see that the example above satisfies these conditions.)



We can now stipulate the conditions under which $k Vdashvarphi$:





  • $kVdash F(d) iff$ $F(d)$ holds at $k$ and $din D(k)$;


  • $kVdash lnotvarphi iff$ for all $k'geq k$, $k'notVdashvarphi$;


  • $kVdash varphilandpsi iff kVdashvarphi text{ and } kVdashpsi$;


  • $kVdash varphilorpsi iff kVdashvarphi text{ or } kVdashpsi$;


  • $k Vdash varphirightarrowpsi iff $ for all $k' geq k$, $k'Vdashvarphi$ implies $k'Vdashpsi$;


  • $kVdashforall x F(x) iff $ for all $k' geq k$ and all $din D(k')$, $k'Vdash F(d)$;


  • $kVdashexists x F(x) iff $ there is a $din D(k)$ such that $kVdash F(d)$;


We say that a formula $varphi$ is Kripke valid if, for all Kripke Structures $mathcal{K} = (K, D, Vdash)$ and all $kin K$, $kVdashvarphi$, and we write "$Vdashvarphi$". Writing "$vdash_ivarphi$" for "$varphi$ is intuitionistically provable", we have




Soundness Theorem If $vdash_ivarphi$, then $Vdashvarphi$.




Hence, since we showed that $notVdashlnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$ (by providing a Kripke Structure as a counter-example), it follows from the Soundness Theorem that $notvdash_ilnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists x lnot F(x)$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I interpreted the question regarding "only one RAA" as meaning: could you prove something along the lines of $lnot forall x, F(x) rightarrow lnotlnot exists x, lnot F(x)$. (For which my counterexample in a Heyting algebra model - which I'm much more familiar with personally - would be: Heyting algebra is open subsets of $mathbb{R}$, domain of discourse is $mathbb{R}$, $F(x) = mathbb{R} setminus { x }$.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    Dec 6 '18 at 0:32










  • $begingroup$
    In the above structure we also have $0Vdashlnotlnotexists x lnot F(x)$, so it serves as a counter-example to both implications.
    $endgroup$
    – ryan221b
    Dec 6 '18 at 2:04










  • $begingroup$
    If $0 Vdash lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$ then how is it a counterexample to $lnot forall x F(x) rightarrow lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$?
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    Dec 6 '18 at 4:26










  • $begingroup$
    I meant $0notVdashlnotlnotexists x not F(x)$, but I don't think that actually holds in my example now, I'll need a different counterexample.
    $endgroup$
    – ryan221b
    Dec 6 '18 at 11:11






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    How about: $mathbb{P} = (mathbb{N}, le)$; $D(k) = mathbb{N}$ for all $k$; and $k Vdash F(n)$ if and only if $k ge n$. If I'm not mistaken, in this example, $0 Vdash lnot forall x F(x)$ but $0 notVdash lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$ (and in fact $0 Vdash lnot exists x lnot F(x)$). But I'm not that confident in my computations here...
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    Dec 6 '18 at 18:12
















2












$begingroup$

You cannot derive $lnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$ in an intuitionistic system without RAA. This is because there is a Soundness Theorem for intuitionistic logic with respect to Kripke Semantics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kripke_semantics#Semantics_of_intuitionistic_logic; I spell them out a bit below): if we could derive that implication using the rules (without RAA), then the formula would be valid in all Kripke Models. However, we can construct a counter-example in which $lnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$ does not hold, so it cannot be derived.



Consider the following Kripke Structure $mathcal{K} = (K, leq, D, Vdash)$:



enter image description here



Since $0leq1$, $1notVdash F(b)$ and $bin D(1)$, we have $0notVdashforall x F(x)$, and also $1notVdashforall x F(x)$, so $0Vdash lnotforall x F(x)$. But at 0, there is no $din D(0)$ satisfying $lnot F(d)$, so $0notVdashexists x lnot F(x)$. Hence, $0notVdashlnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$.





In case you're unfamiliar with Kripke Structures. $(K, leq)$ is a partially ordered set where you can consider the elements of $K$ to be "states of knowledge": at each stage $kin K$ we "know" some theorems but perhaps not others, which may be proved or refuted at a later stage $k' geq k$. Each state has a domain of objects, $D(k)$, and $Vdash$ tells us which sentences hold at each node.



Two observations:




  1. Objects do not "disappear" once constructed: $k leq k' implies D(k) subset D(k')$.

  2. Proved theorems remain proved: $k Vdashvarphi implies k' Vdashvarphi$ for all $k' geq k$.


(You can easily see that the example above satisfies these conditions.)



We can now stipulate the conditions under which $k Vdashvarphi$:





  • $kVdash F(d) iff$ $F(d)$ holds at $k$ and $din D(k)$;


  • $kVdash lnotvarphi iff$ for all $k'geq k$, $k'notVdashvarphi$;


  • $kVdash varphilandpsi iff kVdashvarphi text{ and } kVdashpsi$;


  • $kVdash varphilorpsi iff kVdashvarphi text{ or } kVdashpsi$;


  • $k Vdash varphirightarrowpsi iff $ for all $k' geq k$, $k'Vdashvarphi$ implies $k'Vdashpsi$;


  • $kVdashforall x F(x) iff $ for all $k' geq k$ and all $din D(k')$, $k'Vdash F(d)$;


  • $kVdashexists x F(x) iff $ there is a $din D(k)$ such that $kVdash F(d)$;


We say that a formula $varphi$ is Kripke valid if, for all Kripke Structures $mathcal{K} = (K, D, Vdash)$ and all $kin K$, $kVdashvarphi$, and we write "$Vdashvarphi$". Writing "$vdash_ivarphi$" for "$varphi$ is intuitionistically provable", we have




Soundness Theorem If $vdash_ivarphi$, then $Vdashvarphi$.




Hence, since we showed that $notVdashlnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$ (by providing a Kripke Structure as a counter-example), it follows from the Soundness Theorem that $notvdash_ilnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists x lnot F(x)$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    I interpreted the question regarding "only one RAA" as meaning: could you prove something along the lines of $lnot forall x, F(x) rightarrow lnotlnot exists x, lnot F(x)$. (For which my counterexample in a Heyting algebra model - which I'm much more familiar with personally - would be: Heyting algebra is open subsets of $mathbb{R}$, domain of discourse is $mathbb{R}$, $F(x) = mathbb{R} setminus { x }$.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    Dec 6 '18 at 0:32










  • $begingroup$
    In the above structure we also have $0Vdashlnotlnotexists x lnot F(x)$, so it serves as a counter-example to both implications.
    $endgroup$
    – ryan221b
    Dec 6 '18 at 2:04










  • $begingroup$
    If $0 Vdash lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$ then how is it a counterexample to $lnot forall x F(x) rightarrow lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$?
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    Dec 6 '18 at 4:26










  • $begingroup$
    I meant $0notVdashlnotlnotexists x not F(x)$, but I don't think that actually holds in my example now, I'll need a different counterexample.
    $endgroup$
    – ryan221b
    Dec 6 '18 at 11:11






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    How about: $mathbb{P} = (mathbb{N}, le)$; $D(k) = mathbb{N}$ for all $k$; and $k Vdash F(n)$ if and only if $k ge n$. If I'm not mistaken, in this example, $0 Vdash lnot forall x F(x)$ but $0 notVdash lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$ (and in fact $0 Vdash lnot exists x lnot F(x)$). But I'm not that confident in my computations here...
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    Dec 6 '18 at 18:12














2












2








2





$begingroup$

You cannot derive $lnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$ in an intuitionistic system without RAA. This is because there is a Soundness Theorem for intuitionistic logic with respect to Kripke Semantics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kripke_semantics#Semantics_of_intuitionistic_logic; I spell them out a bit below): if we could derive that implication using the rules (without RAA), then the formula would be valid in all Kripke Models. However, we can construct a counter-example in which $lnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$ does not hold, so it cannot be derived.



Consider the following Kripke Structure $mathcal{K} = (K, leq, D, Vdash)$:



enter image description here



Since $0leq1$, $1notVdash F(b)$ and $bin D(1)$, we have $0notVdashforall x F(x)$, and also $1notVdashforall x F(x)$, so $0Vdash lnotforall x F(x)$. But at 0, there is no $din D(0)$ satisfying $lnot F(d)$, so $0notVdashexists x lnot F(x)$. Hence, $0notVdashlnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$.





In case you're unfamiliar with Kripke Structures. $(K, leq)$ is a partially ordered set where you can consider the elements of $K$ to be "states of knowledge": at each stage $kin K$ we "know" some theorems but perhaps not others, which may be proved or refuted at a later stage $k' geq k$. Each state has a domain of objects, $D(k)$, and $Vdash$ tells us which sentences hold at each node.



Two observations:




  1. Objects do not "disappear" once constructed: $k leq k' implies D(k) subset D(k')$.

  2. Proved theorems remain proved: $k Vdashvarphi implies k' Vdashvarphi$ for all $k' geq k$.


(You can easily see that the example above satisfies these conditions.)



We can now stipulate the conditions under which $k Vdashvarphi$:





  • $kVdash F(d) iff$ $F(d)$ holds at $k$ and $din D(k)$;


  • $kVdash lnotvarphi iff$ for all $k'geq k$, $k'notVdashvarphi$;


  • $kVdash varphilandpsi iff kVdashvarphi text{ and } kVdashpsi$;


  • $kVdash varphilorpsi iff kVdashvarphi text{ or } kVdashpsi$;


  • $k Vdash varphirightarrowpsi iff $ for all $k' geq k$, $k'Vdashvarphi$ implies $k'Vdashpsi$;


  • $kVdashforall x F(x) iff $ for all $k' geq k$ and all $din D(k')$, $k'Vdash F(d)$;


  • $kVdashexists x F(x) iff $ there is a $din D(k)$ such that $kVdash F(d)$;


We say that a formula $varphi$ is Kripke valid if, for all Kripke Structures $mathcal{K} = (K, D, Vdash)$ and all $kin K$, $kVdashvarphi$, and we write "$Vdashvarphi$". Writing "$vdash_ivarphi$" for "$varphi$ is intuitionistically provable", we have




Soundness Theorem If $vdash_ivarphi$, then $Vdashvarphi$.




Hence, since we showed that $notVdashlnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$ (by providing a Kripke Structure as a counter-example), it follows from the Soundness Theorem that $notvdash_ilnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists x lnot F(x)$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



You cannot derive $lnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$ in an intuitionistic system without RAA. This is because there is a Soundness Theorem for intuitionistic logic with respect to Kripke Semantics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kripke_semantics#Semantics_of_intuitionistic_logic; I spell them out a bit below): if we could derive that implication using the rules (without RAA), then the formula would be valid in all Kripke Models. However, we can construct a counter-example in which $lnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$ does not hold, so it cannot be derived.



Consider the following Kripke Structure $mathcal{K} = (K, leq, D, Vdash)$:



enter image description here



Since $0leq1$, $1notVdash F(b)$ and $bin D(1)$, we have $0notVdashforall x F(x)$, and also $1notVdashforall x F(x)$, so $0Vdash lnotforall x F(x)$. But at 0, there is no $din D(0)$ satisfying $lnot F(d)$, so $0notVdashexists x lnot F(x)$. Hence, $0notVdashlnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$.





In case you're unfamiliar with Kripke Structures. $(K, leq)$ is a partially ordered set where you can consider the elements of $K$ to be "states of knowledge": at each stage $kin K$ we "know" some theorems but perhaps not others, which may be proved or refuted at a later stage $k' geq k$. Each state has a domain of objects, $D(k)$, and $Vdash$ tells us which sentences hold at each node.



Two observations:




  1. Objects do not "disappear" once constructed: $k leq k' implies D(k) subset D(k')$.

  2. Proved theorems remain proved: $k Vdashvarphi implies k' Vdashvarphi$ for all $k' geq k$.


(You can easily see that the example above satisfies these conditions.)



We can now stipulate the conditions under which $k Vdashvarphi$:





  • $kVdash F(d) iff$ $F(d)$ holds at $k$ and $din D(k)$;


  • $kVdash lnotvarphi iff$ for all $k'geq k$, $k'notVdashvarphi$;


  • $kVdash varphilandpsi iff kVdashvarphi text{ and } kVdashpsi$;


  • $kVdash varphilorpsi iff kVdashvarphi text{ or } kVdashpsi$;


  • $k Vdash varphirightarrowpsi iff $ for all $k' geq k$, $k'Vdashvarphi$ implies $k'Vdashpsi$;


  • $kVdashforall x F(x) iff $ for all $k' geq k$ and all $din D(k')$, $k'Vdash F(d)$;


  • $kVdashexists x F(x) iff $ there is a $din D(k)$ such that $kVdash F(d)$;


We say that a formula $varphi$ is Kripke valid if, for all Kripke Structures $mathcal{K} = (K, D, Vdash)$ and all $kin K$, $kVdashvarphi$, and we write "$Vdashvarphi$". Writing "$vdash_ivarphi$" for "$varphi$ is intuitionistically provable", we have




Soundness Theorem If $vdash_ivarphi$, then $Vdashvarphi$.




Hence, since we showed that $notVdashlnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists xlnot F(x)$ (by providing a Kripke Structure as a counter-example), it follows from the Soundness Theorem that $notvdash_ilnotforall x F(x) rightarrow exists x lnot F(x)$.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Dec 6 '18 at 20:05

























answered Dec 6 '18 at 0:07









ryan221bryan221b

9510




9510












  • $begingroup$
    I interpreted the question regarding "only one RAA" as meaning: could you prove something along the lines of $lnot forall x, F(x) rightarrow lnotlnot exists x, lnot F(x)$. (For which my counterexample in a Heyting algebra model - which I'm much more familiar with personally - would be: Heyting algebra is open subsets of $mathbb{R}$, domain of discourse is $mathbb{R}$, $F(x) = mathbb{R} setminus { x }$.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    Dec 6 '18 at 0:32










  • $begingroup$
    In the above structure we also have $0Vdashlnotlnotexists x lnot F(x)$, so it serves as a counter-example to both implications.
    $endgroup$
    – ryan221b
    Dec 6 '18 at 2:04










  • $begingroup$
    If $0 Vdash lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$ then how is it a counterexample to $lnot forall x F(x) rightarrow lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$?
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    Dec 6 '18 at 4:26










  • $begingroup$
    I meant $0notVdashlnotlnotexists x not F(x)$, but I don't think that actually holds in my example now, I'll need a different counterexample.
    $endgroup$
    – ryan221b
    Dec 6 '18 at 11:11






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    How about: $mathbb{P} = (mathbb{N}, le)$; $D(k) = mathbb{N}$ for all $k$; and $k Vdash F(n)$ if and only if $k ge n$. If I'm not mistaken, in this example, $0 Vdash lnot forall x F(x)$ but $0 notVdash lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$ (and in fact $0 Vdash lnot exists x lnot F(x)$). But I'm not that confident in my computations here...
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    Dec 6 '18 at 18:12


















  • $begingroup$
    I interpreted the question regarding "only one RAA" as meaning: could you prove something along the lines of $lnot forall x, F(x) rightarrow lnotlnot exists x, lnot F(x)$. (For which my counterexample in a Heyting algebra model - which I'm much more familiar with personally - would be: Heyting algebra is open subsets of $mathbb{R}$, domain of discourse is $mathbb{R}$, $F(x) = mathbb{R} setminus { x }$.
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    Dec 6 '18 at 0:32










  • $begingroup$
    In the above structure we also have $0Vdashlnotlnotexists x lnot F(x)$, so it serves as a counter-example to both implications.
    $endgroup$
    – ryan221b
    Dec 6 '18 at 2:04










  • $begingroup$
    If $0 Vdash lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$ then how is it a counterexample to $lnot forall x F(x) rightarrow lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$?
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    Dec 6 '18 at 4:26










  • $begingroup$
    I meant $0notVdashlnotlnotexists x not F(x)$, but I don't think that actually holds in my example now, I'll need a different counterexample.
    $endgroup$
    – ryan221b
    Dec 6 '18 at 11:11






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    How about: $mathbb{P} = (mathbb{N}, le)$; $D(k) = mathbb{N}$ for all $k$; and $k Vdash F(n)$ if and only if $k ge n$. If I'm not mistaken, in this example, $0 Vdash lnot forall x F(x)$ but $0 notVdash lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$ (and in fact $0 Vdash lnot exists x lnot F(x)$). But I'm not that confident in my computations here...
    $endgroup$
    – Daniel Schepler
    Dec 6 '18 at 18:12
















$begingroup$
I interpreted the question regarding "only one RAA" as meaning: could you prove something along the lines of $lnot forall x, F(x) rightarrow lnotlnot exists x, lnot F(x)$. (For which my counterexample in a Heyting algebra model - which I'm much more familiar with personally - would be: Heyting algebra is open subsets of $mathbb{R}$, domain of discourse is $mathbb{R}$, $F(x) = mathbb{R} setminus { x }$.
$endgroup$
– Daniel Schepler
Dec 6 '18 at 0:32




$begingroup$
I interpreted the question regarding "only one RAA" as meaning: could you prove something along the lines of $lnot forall x, F(x) rightarrow lnotlnot exists x, lnot F(x)$. (For which my counterexample in a Heyting algebra model - which I'm much more familiar with personally - would be: Heyting algebra is open subsets of $mathbb{R}$, domain of discourse is $mathbb{R}$, $F(x) = mathbb{R} setminus { x }$.
$endgroup$
– Daniel Schepler
Dec 6 '18 at 0:32












$begingroup$
In the above structure we also have $0Vdashlnotlnotexists x lnot F(x)$, so it serves as a counter-example to both implications.
$endgroup$
– ryan221b
Dec 6 '18 at 2:04




$begingroup$
In the above structure we also have $0Vdashlnotlnotexists x lnot F(x)$, so it serves as a counter-example to both implications.
$endgroup$
– ryan221b
Dec 6 '18 at 2:04












$begingroup$
If $0 Vdash lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$ then how is it a counterexample to $lnot forall x F(x) rightarrow lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$?
$endgroup$
– Daniel Schepler
Dec 6 '18 at 4:26




$begingroup$
If $0 Vdash lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$ then how is it a counterexample to $lnot forall x F(x) rightarrow lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$?
$endgroup$
– Daniel Schepler
Dec 6 '18 at 4:26












$begingroup$
I meant $0notVdashlnotlnotexists x not F(x)$, but I don't think that actually holds in my example now, I'll need a different counterexample.
$endgroup$
– ryan221b
Dec 6 '18 at 11:11




$begingroup$
I meant $0notVdashlnotlnotexists x not F(x)$, but I don't think that actually holds in my example now, I'll need a different counterexample.
$endgroup$
– ryan221b
Dec 6 '18 at 11:11




1




1




$begingroup$
How about: $mathbb{P} = (mathbb{N}, le)$; $D(k) = mathbb{N}$ for all $k$; and $k Vdash F(n)$ if and only if $k ge n$. If I'm not mistaken, in this example, $0 Vdash lnot forall x F(x)$ but $0 notVdash lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$ (and in fact $0 Vdash lnot exists x lnot F(x)$). But I'm not that confident in my computations here...
$endgroup$
– Daniel Schepler
Dec 6 '18 at 18:12




$begingroup$
How about: $mathbb{P} = (mathbb{N}, le)$; $D(k) = mathbb{N}$ for all $k$; and $k Vdash F(n)$ if and only if $k ge n$. If I'm not mistaken, in this example, $0 Vdash lnot forall x F(x)$ but $0 notVdash lnotlnot exists x lnot F(x)$ (and in fact $0 Vdash lnot exists x lnot F(x)$). But I'm not that confident in my computations here...
$endgroup$
– Daniel Schepler
Dec 6 '18 at 18:12


















draft saved

draft discarded




















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2133146%2freductio-ad-absurdum-but-just-once%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Berounka

Fiat S.p.A.

Type 'String' is not a subtype of type 'int' of 'index'