Prove that $rank(D) > rank(A) + rank(B)$











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I am new here!! I'm studying maths in Argentina.
I have a doubt abouts the next demostration:



Be $A∈M_{m,n}(R),Bin M_{p,l}(R),Cin M_{m,l}$ three blocks of matrix $D$, $Din M_{(m+p),(n+l)}(R)$, so
$D=begin{bmatrix}
A & C \
0 & B \
end{bmatrix}$
, where $0$ is a block. Are there any formula that relate rank $D$ with rank $A,B,C$?



And later, for any block C, prove that: $rank(D) > rank (A)+rank (B)$



What I have tried is:



Exist $P,Q$ two matrix that $PDQ=begin{bmatrix}
I_{d} & 0 \
0 & 0 \
end{bmatrix}$
where $rank (D)=d$, doing the same for every block I have:
$A=begin{bmatrix} I_{a} & 0 \
0 & 0 \
end{bmatrix}$
, $B=
begin{bmatrix}
I_{b} & 0 \
0 & 0 & \
end{bmatrix}$
and $C=begin{bmatrix}
I_{c} & 0 \
0 & 0 \
end{bmatrix}$
, so $D=begin{bmatrix}
I_{a} & 0 & I_{c} & 0 \
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 0 & I_{b} & 0
end{bmatrix}$
, Is my method correct? How I can prove it? And how I prove $rank D> rank A + rank C$



Thank you!










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  • If ${rm rank}(C)=0$ then ${rm rank}(D)={rm rank}(A)+{rm rank}(B)$.
    – random
    Nov 27 at 0:08















up vote
1
down vote

favorite
1












I am new here!! I'm studying maths in Argentina.
I have a doubt abouts the next demostration:



Be $A∈M_{m,n}(R),Bin M_{p,l}(R),Cin M_{m,l}$ three blocks of matrix $D$, $Din M_{(m+p),(n+l)}(R)$, so
$D=begin{bmatrix}
A & C \
0 & B \
end{bmatrix}$
, where $0$ is a block. Are there any formula that relate rank $D$ with rank $A,B,C$?



And later, for any block C, prove that: $rank(D) > rank (A)+rank (B)$



What I have tried is:



Exist $P,Q$ two matrix that $PDQ=begin{bmatrix}
I_{d} & 0 \
0 & 0 \
end{bmatrix}$
where $rank (D)=d$, doing the same for every block I have:
$A=begin{bmatrix} I_{a} & 0 \
0 & 0 \
end{bmatrix}$
, $B=
begin{bmatrix}
I_{b} & 0 \
0 & 0 & \
end{bmatrix}$
and $C=begin{bmatrix}
I_{c} & 0 \
0 & 0 \
end{bmatrix}$
, so $D=begin{bmatrix}
I_{a} & 0 & I_{c} & 0 \
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 0 & I_{b} & 0
end{bmatrix}$
, Is my method correct? How I can prove it? And how I prove $rank D> rank A + rank C$



Thank you!










share|cite|improve this question
























  • If ${rm rank}(C)=0$ then ${rm rank}(D)={rm rank}(A)+{rm rank}(B)$.
    – random
    Nov 27 at 0:08













up vote
1
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
1
down vote

favorite
1






1





I am new here!! I'm studying maths in Argentina.
I have a doubt abouts the next demostration:



Be $A∈M_{m,n}(R),Bin M_{p,l}(R),Cin M_{m,l}$ three blocks of matrix $D$, $Din M_{(m+p),(n+l)}(R)$, so
$D=begin{bmatrix}
A & C \
0 & B \
end{bmatrix}$
, where $0$ is a block. Are there any formula that relate rank $D$ with rank $A,B,C$?



And later, for any block C, prove that: $rank(D) > rank (A)+rank (B)$



What I have tried is:



Exist $P,Q$ two matrix that $PDQ=begin{bmatrix}
I_{d} & 0 \
0 & 0 \
end{bmatrix}$
where $rank (D)=d$, doing the same for every block I have:
$A=begin{bmatrix} I_{a} & 0 \
0 & 0 \
end{bmatrix}$
, $B=
begin{bmatrix}
I_{b} & 0 \
0 & 0 & \
end{bmatrix}$
and $C=begin{bmatrix}
I_{c} & 0 \
0 & 0 \
end{bmatrix}$
, so $D=begin{bmatrix}
I_{a} & 0 & I_{c} & 0 \
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 0 & I_{b} & 0
end{bmatrix}$
, Is my method correct? How I can prove it? And how I prove $rank D> rank A + rank C$



Thank you!










share|cite|improve this question















I am new here!! I'm studying maths in Argentina.
I have a doubt abouts the next demostration:



Be $A∈M_{m,n}(R),Bin M_{p,l}(R),Cin M_{m,l}$ three blocks of matrix $D$, $Din M_{(m+p),(n+l)}(R)$, so
$D=begin{bmatrix}
A & C \
0 & B \
end{bmatrix}$
, where $0$ is a block. Are there any formula that relate rank $D$ with rank $A,B,C$?



And later, for any block C, prove that: $rank(D) > rank (A)+rank (B)$



What I have tried is:



Exist $P,Q$ two matrix that $PDQ=begin{bmatrix}
I_{d} & 0 \
0 & 0 \
end{bmatrix}$
where $rank (D)=d$, doing the same for every block I have:
$A=begin{bmatrix} I_{a} & 0 \
0 & 0 \
end{bmatrix}$
, $B=
begin{bmatrix}
I_{b} & 0 \
0 & 0 & \
end{bmatrix}$
and $C=begin{bmatrix}
I_{c} & 0 \
0 & 0 \
end{bmatrix}$
, so $D=begin{bmatrix}
I_{a} & 0 & I_{c} & 0 \
0 & 0 & 0 & 0 \
0 & 0 & I_{b} & 0
end{bmatrix}$
, Is my method correct? How I can prove it? And how I prove $rank D> rank A + rank C$



Thank you!







linear-algebra matrices proof-verification






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edited Nov 24 at 20:23

























asked Nov 24 at 12:31









pmonteba

113




113












  • If ${rm rank}(C)=0$ then ${rm rank}(D)={rm rank}(A)+{rm rank}(B)$.
    – random
    Nov 27 at 0:08


















  • If ${rm rank}(C)=0$ then ${rm rank}(D)={rm rank}(A)+{rm rank}(B)$.
    – random
    Nov 27 at 0:08
















If ${rm rank}(C)=0$ then ${rm rank}(D)={rm rank}(A)+{rm rank}(B)$.
– random
Nov 27 at 0:08




If ${rm rank}(C)=0$ then ${rm rank}(D)={rm rank}(A)+{rm rank}(B)$.
– random
Nov 27 at 0:08










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Your statement is not correct. The sign should be $ geqslant $, not $>$. Here's why.



The linearly independent columns of $A $ with a bunch of zeroes added at the bottom remain linearly independent. Hence, rank $D $ is at least rank $A$. The slightly tricky part is dealing with the column vectors whose upper components are comprised of columns of $ C $, lower, of $ B $; call these CB column vectors. In order to get the most linearly independent columns out of $B$, then as said before, $C$ should be zero; then rank $D$ = rank $A$ + rank$B$. However, $C $ may contain some vectors such that there are more linearly independent CB column vectors. For example, maybe all the $B$ vectors are $ begin{pmatrix} 1 \ 1 \ 1 end{pmatrix} $ thrice repeated, but the $C$ vectors are $begin{pmatrix} 1 \ 0 \ 0 end{pmatrix}, begin{pmatrix} 0 \ 1 \ 0 end{pmatrix}, begin{pmatrix} 0 \ 0 \ 1 end{pmatrix} $, in order. Whereas rank $B$ = 1, now rank$ D $ = rank $ A $ + 3 $ > $ rank $ A $ + rank $ B $.



Why not the reverse inequality? If you start with my $C$ column vectors (these are linearly independent), then no matter what you tack on to the bottom, there is no non trivial linear combination to make the $ C $ components of the CB column vectors zero by definition.






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    Your statement is not correct. The sign should be $ geqslant $, not $>$. Here's why.



    The linearly independent columns of $A $ with a bunch of zeroes added at the bottom remain linearly independent. Hence, rank $D $ is at least rank $A$. The slightly tricky part is dealing with the column vectors whose upper components are comprised of columns of $ C $, lower, of $ B $; call these CB column vectors. In order to get the most linearly independent columns out of $B$, then as said before, $C$ should be zero; then rank $D$ = rank $A$ + rank$B$. However, $C $ may contain some vectors such that there are more linearly independent CB column vectors. For example, maybe all the $B$ vectors are $ begin{pmatrix} 1 \ 1 \ 1 end{pmatrix} $ thrice repeated, but the $C$ vectors are $begin{pmatrix} 1 \ 0 \ 0 end{pmatrix}, begin{pmatrix} 0 \ 1 \ 0 end{pmatrix}, begin{pmatrix} 0 \ 0 \ 1 end{pmatrix} $, in order. Whereas rank $B$ = 1, now rank$ D $ = rank $ A $ + 3 $ > $ rank $ A $ + rank $ B $.



    Why not the reverse inequality? If you start with my $C$ column vectors (these are linearly independent), then no matter what you tack on to the bottom, there is no non trivial linear combination to make the $ C $ components of the CB column vectors zero by definition.






    share|cite|improve this answer

























      up vote
      0
      down vote













      Your statement is not correct. The sign should be $ geqslant $, not $>$. Here's why.



      The linearly independent columns of $A $ with a bunch of zeroes added at the bottom remain linearly independent. Hence, rank $D $ is at least rank $A$. The slightly tricky part is dealing with the column vectors whose upper components are comprised of columns of $ C $, lower, of $ B $; call these CB column vectors. In order to get the most linearly independent columns out of $B$, then as said before, $C$ should be zero; then rank $D$ = rank $A$ + rank$B$. However, $C $ may contain some vectors such that there are more linearly independent CB column vectors. For example, maybe all the $B$ vectors are $ begin{pmatrix} 1 \ 1 \ 1 end{pmatrix} $ thrice repeated, but the $C$ vectors are $begin{pmatrix} 1 \ 0 \ 0 end{pmatrix}, begin{pmatrix} 0 \ 1 \ 0 end{pmatrix}, begin{pmatrix} 0 \ 0 \ 1 end{pmatrix} $, in order. Whereas rank $B$ = 1, now rank$ D $ = rank $ A $ + 3 $ > $ rank $ A $ + rank $ B $.



      Why not the reverse inequality? If you start with my $C$ column vectors (these are linearly independent), then no matter what you tack on to the bottom, there is no non trivial linear combination to make the $ C $ components of the CB column vectors zero by definition.






      share|cite|improve this answer























        up vote
        0
        down vote










        up vote
        0
        down vote









        Your statement is not correct. The sign should be $ geqslant $, not $>$. Here's why.



        The linearly independent columns of $A $ with a bunch of zeroes added at the bottom remain linearly independent. Hence, rank $D $ is at least rank $A$. The slightly tricky part is dealing with the column vectors whose upper components are comprised of columns of $ C $, lower, of $ B $; call these CB column vectors. In order to get the most linearly independent columns out of $B$, then as said before, $C$ should be zero; then rank $D$ = rank $A$ + rank$B$. However, $C $ may contain some vectors such that there are more linearly independent CB column vectors. For example, maybe all the $B$ vectors are $ begin{pmatrix} 1 \ 1 \ 1 end{pmatrix} $ thrice repeated, but the $C$ vectors are $begin{pmatrix} 1 \ 0 \ 0 end{pmatrix}, begin{pmatrix} 0 \ 1 \ 0 end{pmatrix}, begin{pmatrix} 0 \ 0 \ 1 end{pmatrix} $, in order. Whereas rank $B$ = 1, now rank$ D $ = rank $ A $ + 3 $ > $ rank $ A $ + rank $ B $.



        Why not the reverse inequality? If you start with my $C$ column vectors (these are linearly independent), then no matter what you tack on to the bottom, there is no non trivial linear combination to make the $ C $ components of the CB column vectors zero by definition.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        Your statement is not correct. The sign should be $ geqslant $, not $>$. Here's why.



        The linearly independent columns of $A $ with a bunch of zeroes added at the bottom remain linearly independent. Hence, rank $D $ is at least rank $A$. The slightly tricky part is dealing with the column vectors whose upper components are comprised of columns of $ C $, lower, of $ B $; call these CB column vectors. In order to get the most linearly independent columns out of $B$, then as said before, $C$ should be zero; then rank $D$ = rank $A$ + rank$B$. However, $C $ may contain some vectors such that there are more linearly independent CB column vectors. For example, maybe all the $B$ vectors are $ begin{pmatrix} 1 \ 1 \ 1 end{pmatrix} $ thrice repeated, but the $C$ vectors are $begin{pmatrix} 1 \ 0 \ 0 end{pmatrix}, begin{pmatrix} 0 \ 1 \ 0 end{pmatrix}, begin{pmatrix} 0 \ 0 \ 1 end{pmatrix} $, in order. Whereas rank $B$ = 1, now rank$ D $ = rank $ A $ + 3 $ > $ rank $ A $ + rank $ B $.



        Why not the reverse inequality? If you start with my $C$ column vectors (these are linearly independent), then no matter what you tack on to the bottom, there is no non trivial linear combination to make the $ C $ components of the CB column vectors zero by definition.







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        answered Nov 28 at 9:14









        hhp2122

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