Whether preserving inner products follows from preserving intrinsic distances
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I know that if a map F between two surfaces preserves inner products of tangent vectors and is 1-1 and onto, then it must preserve intrinsic distances, but I’m not sure whether the inverse is true. Namely, is it true that any map F between two surfaces that is 1-1, onto, and preserves intrinsic distances will automatically preserve inner products of tangent vectors?
Thanks a lot!
geometry differential-geometry surfaces
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I know that if a map F between two surfaces preserves inner products of tangent vectors and is 1-1 and onto, then it must preserve intrinsic distances, but I’m not sure whether the inverse is true. Namely, is it true that any map F between two surfaces that is 1-1, onto, and preserves intrinsic distances will automatically preserve inner products of tangent vectors?
Thanks a lot!
geometry differential-geometry surfaces
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
up vote
1
down vote
favorite
I know that if a map F between two surfaces preserves inner products of tangent vectors and is 1-1 and onto, then it must preserve intrinsic distances, but I’m not sure whether the inverse is true. Namely, is it true that any map F between two surfaces that is 1-1, onto, and preserves intrinsic distances will automatically preserve inner products of tangent vectors?
Thanks a lot!
geometry differential-geometry surfaces
I know that if a map F between two surfaces preserves inner products of tangent vectors and is 1-1 and onto, then it must preserve intrinsic distances, but I’m not sure whether the inverse is true. Namely, is it true that any map F between two surfaces that is 1-1, onto, and preserves intrinsic distances will automatically preserve inner products of tangent vectors?
Thanks a lot!
geometry differential-geometry surfaces
geometry differential-geometry surfaces
asked Nov 25 at 7:05
David Petey Gao
434
434
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
Suppose $$F : (S, g) to (S', g')$$ is a metric isometry (homeomorphism that preserves the distance respective functions $d_g, d_{g'}$ of $g, g'$, that is, that satisfies $d_g = F^* d_{g'}$). Then, yes, $F$ is actually a (Riemannian) isometry, i.e., $F^* g' = g$.
To do this, it's certainly enough to give an explicit formula for $g$ in terms of $d_g$ (or even just $g(Z, Z)$, since we can recover $g$ by the Polarization Formula).
Hint Compare $g$ with the Euclidean metric in normal coordinates to establish that for any $p$ and $epsilon > 0$ there is a constant $C > 0$ for which the comparison
$$(1 - C|t|) |t X - t Y|_g leq d_g(exp t X, exp t Y) leq (1 + C|t|)|t X - t Y|_g$$ holds when $|t| leq 1$ for all $X, Y in B_{epsilon}(p)$.
Conclude that $$|X - Y|_g^2 = lim_{t to 0} frac{d_g(exp tX, exp tY)^2}{t^2} .$$
For a more detailed hint, see the erratum for p. 112, Problem 6-2 in the errata to Lee's Riemannian Manifolds.
I've read the hint in the errata you mentioned, and it's of great help. Thanks a lot!
– David Petey Gao
Nov 26 at 19:01
However, the hint says the fact that metric isometries preserve geodesics needs to be proved first. I'm really new to this field and my understanding is a little bit messed up, but how exactly is this proved? Isn't it necessary to use the property of inner products preserving in proving this fact?
– David Petey Gao
Nov 26 at 19:08
You're welcome, I'm glad you've found it helpful. That question perhaps merits a question of its own, but: Geodesics can be defined in an invariant way in terms of the metric, namely, they are the solutions $gamma(t)$ to the differential equation $nabla^g_{gamma'} gamma' = 0$, so since the isometry maps one metric to the other, it maps the geodesics of the first to those of the second.
– Travis
Nov 26 at 19:16
If you prefer something more concrete, for any coordinate chart $(U, phi)$ on $S'$, $(F^{-1}(U), phi circ F)$ is a coordinate chart on $S$. Then, writing the geodesic equations in the two coordinate charts shows that if $gamma(t)$ is a geodesic of $g$ in $F^{-1}(U)$, then $(F circ gamma)(t)$ is a geodesic of $g'$ in $U$.
– Travis
Nov 26 at 19:19
I see. It's indeed true that if F preserves the metric tensor, then the geodesics would be preserved. However, the thing here is that we have only required F to preserve distances, not the metric tensor. The hint in the errata seems to say that in order to prove that such F would indeed preserve the metric tensor, we need to first prove that it will preserve geodesics. How can this be done? Thanks a lot!
– David Petey Gao
Nov 27 at 2:46
|
show 7 more comments
up vote
0
down vote
Yes, because $4acdot b=(a+b)^2-(a-b)^2$ or, in the complex case, $4acdot b=sum_{n=0}^3 i^{-n}Vert a+i^n bVert^2$.
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
Suppose $$F : (S, g) to (S', g')$$ is a metric isometry (homeomorphism that preserves the distance respective functions $d_g, d_{g'}$ of $g, g'$, that is, that satisfies $d_g = F^* d_{g'}$). Then, yes, $F$ is actually a (Riemannian) isometry, i.e., $F^* g' = g$.
To do this, it's certainly enough to give an explicit formula for $g$ in terms of $d_g$ (or even just $g(Z, Z)$, since we can recover $g$ by the Polarization Formula).
Hint Compare $g$ with the Euclidean metric in normal coordinates to establish that for any $p$ and $epsilon > 0$ there is a constant $C > 0$ for which the comparison
$$(1 - C|t|) |t X - t Y|_g leq d_g(exp t X, exp t Y) leq (1 + C|t|)|t X - t Y|_g$$ holds when $|t| leq 1$ for all $X, Y in B_{epsilon}(p)$.
Conclude that $$|X - Y|_g^2 = lim_{t to 0} frac{d_g(exp tX, exp tY)^2}{t^2} .$$
For a more detailed hint, see the erratum for p. 112, Problem 6-2 in the errata to Lee's Riemannian Manifolds.
I've read the hint in the errata you mentioned, and it's of great help. Thanks a lot!
– David Petey Gao
Nov 26 at 19:01
However, the hint says the fact that metric isometries preserve geodesics needs to be proved first. I'm really new to this field and my understanding is a little bit messed up, but how exactly is this proved? Isn't it necessary to use the property of inner products preserving in proving this fact?
– David Petey Gao
Nov 26 at 19:08
You're welcome, I'm glad you've found it helpful. That question perhaps merits a question of its own, but: Geodesics can be defined in an invariant way in terms of the metric, namely, they are the solutions $gamma(t)$ to the differential equation $nabla^g_{gamma'} gamma' = 0$, so since the isometry maps one metric to the other, it maps the geodesics of the first to those of the second.
– Travis
Nov 26 at 19:16
If you prefer something more concrete, for any coordinate chart $(U, phi)$ on $S'$, $(F^{-1}(U), phi circ F)$ is a coordinate chart on $S$. Then, writing the geodesic equations in the two coordinate charts shows that if $gamma(t)$ is a geodesic of $g$ in $F^{-1}(U)$, then $(F circ gamma)(t)$ is a geodesic of $g'$ in $U$.
– Travis
Nov 26 at 19:19
I see. It's indeed true that if F preserves the metric tensor, then the geodesics would be preserved. However, the thing here is that we have only required F to preserve distances, not the metric tensor. The hint in the errata seems to say that in order to prove that such F would indeed preserve the metric tensor, we need to first prove that it will preserve geodesics. How can this be done? Thanks a lot!
– David Petey Gao
Nov 27 at 2:46
|
show 7 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
Suppose $$F : (S, g) to (S', g')$$ is a metric isometry (homeomorphism that preserves the distance respective functions $d_g, d_{g'}$ of $g, g'$, that is, that satisfies $d_g = F^* d_{g'}$). Then, yes, $F$ is actually a (Riemannian) isometry, i.e., $F^* g' = g$.
To do this, it's certainly enough to give an explicit formula for $g$ in terms of $d_g$ (or even just $g(Z, Z)$, since we can recover $g$ by the Polarization Formula).
Hint Compare $g$ with the Euclidean metric in normal coordinates to establish that for any $p$ and $epsilon > 0$ there is a constant $C > 0$ for which the comparison
$$(1 - C|t|) |t X - t Y|_g leq d_g(exp t X, exp t Y) leq (1 + C|t|)|t X - t Y|_g$$ holds when $|t| leq 1$ for all $X, Y in B_{epsilon}(p)$.
Conclude that $$|X - Y|_g^2 = lim_{t to 0} frac{d_g(exp tX, exp tY)^2}{t^2} .$$
For a more detailed hint, see the erratum for p. 112, Problem 6-2 in the errata to Lee's Riemannian Manifolds.
I've read the hint in the errata you mentioned, and it's of great help. Thanks a lot!
– David Petey Gao
Nov 26 at 19:01
However, the hint says the fact that metric isometries preserve geodesics needs to be proved first. I'm really new to this field and my understanding is a little bit messed up, but how exactly is this proved? Isn't it necessary to use the property of inner products preserving in proving this fact?
– David Petey Gao
Nov 26 at 19:08
You're welcome, I'm glad you've found it helpful. That question perhaps merits a question of its own, but: Geodesics can be defined in an invariant way in terms of the metric, namely, they are the solutions $gamma(t)$ to the differential equation $nabla^g_{gamma'} gamma' = 0$, so since the isometry maps one metric to the other, it maps the geodesics of the first to those of the second.
– Travis
Nov 26 at 19:16
If you prefer something more concrete, for any coordinate chart $(U, phi)$ on $S'$, $(F^{-1}(U), phi circ F)$ is a coordinate chart on $S$. Then, writing the geodesic equations in the two coordinate charts shows that if $gamma(t)$ is a geodesic of $g$ in $F^{-1}(U)$, then $(F circ gamma)(t)$ is a geodesic of $g'$ in $U$.
– Travis
Nov 26 at 19:19
I see. It's indeed true that if F preserves the metric tensor, then the geodesics would be preserved. However, the thing here is that we have only required F to preserve distances, not the metric tensor. The hint in the errata seems to say that in order to prove that such F would indeed preserve the metric tensor, we need to first prove that it will preserve geodesics. How can this be done? Thanks a lot!
– David Petey Gao
Nov 27 at 2:46
|
show 7 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
Suppose $$F : (S, g) to (S', g')$$ is a metric isometry (homeomorphism that preserves the distance respective functions $d_g, d_{g'}$ of $g, g'$, that is, that satisfies $d_g = F^* d_{g'}$). Then, yes, $F$ is actually a (Riemannian) isometry, i.e., $F^* g' = g$.
To do this, it's certainly enough to give an explicit formula for $g$ in terms of $d_g$ (or even just $g(Z, Z)$, since we can recover $g$ by the Polarization Formula).
Hint Compare $g$ with the Euclidean metric in normal coordinates to establish that for any $p$ and $epsilon > 0$ there is a constant $C > 0$ for which the comparison
$$(1 - C|t|) |t X - t Y|_g leq d_g(exp t X, exp t Y) leq (1 + C|t|)|t X - t Y|_g$$ holds when $|t| leq 1$ for all $X, Y in B_{epsilon}(p)$.
Conclude that $$|X - Y|_g^2 = lim_{t to 0} frac{d_g(exp tX, exp tY)^2}{t^2} .$$
For a more detailed hint, see the erratum for p. 112, Problem 6-2 in the errata to Lee's Riemannian Manifolds.
Suppose $$F : (S, g) to (S', g')$$ is a metric isometry (homeomorphism that preserves the distance respective functions $d_g, d_{g'}$ of $g, g'$, that is, that satisfies $d_g = F^* d_{g'}$). Then, yes, $F$ is actually a (Riemannian) isometry, i.e., $F^* g' = g$.
To do this, it's certainly enough to give an explicit formula for $g$ in terms of $d_g$ (or even just $g(Z, Z)$, since we can recover $g$ by the Polarization Formula).
Hint Compare $g$ with the Euclidean metric in normal coordinates to establish that for any $p$ and $epsilon > 0$ there is a constant $C > 0$ for which the comparison
$$(1 - C|t|) |t X - t Y|_g leq d_g(exp t X, exp t Y) leq (1 + C|t|)|t X - t Y|_g$$ holds when $|t| leq 1$ for all $X, Y in B_{epsilon}(p)$.
Conclude that $$|X - Y|_g^2 = lim_{t to 0} frac{d_g(exp tX, exp tY)^2}{t^2} .$$
For a more detailed hint, see the erratum for p. 112, Problem 6-2 in the errata to Lee's Riemannian Manifolds.
answered Nov 25 at 8:41
Travis
59k766144
59k766144
I've read the hint in the errata you mentioned, and it's of great help. Thanks a lot!
– David Petey Gao
Nov 26 at 19:01
However, the hint says the fact that metric isometries preserve geodesics needs to be proved first. I'm really new to this field and my understanding is a little bit messed up, but how exactly is this proved? Isn't it necessary to use the property of inner products preserving in proving this fact?
– David Petey Gao
Nov 26 at 19:08
You're welcome, I'm glad you've found it helpful. That question perhaps merits a question of its own, but: Geodesics can be defined in an invariant way in terms of the metric, namely, they are the solutions $gamma(t)$ to the differential equation $nabla^g_{gamma'} gamma' = 0$, so since the isometry maps one metric to the other, it maps the geodesics of the first to those of the second.
– Travis
Nov 26 at 19:16
If you prefer something more concrete, for any coordinate chart $(U, phi)$ on $S'$, $(F^{-1}(U), phi circ F)$ is a coordinate chart on $S$. Then, writing the geodesic equations in the two coordinate charts shows that if $gamma(t)$ is a geodesic of $g$ in $F^{-1}(U)$, then $(F circ gamma)(t)$ is a geodesic of $g'$ in $U$.
– Travis
Nov 26 at 19:19
I see. It's indeed true that if F preserves the metric tensor, then the geodesics would be preserved. However, the thing here is that we have only required F to preserve distances, not the metric tensor. The hint in the errata seems to say that in order to prove that such F would indeed preserve the metric tensor, we need to first prove that it will preserve geodesics. How can this be done? Thanks a lot!
– David Petey Gao
Nov 27 at 2:46
|
show 7 more comments
I've read the hint in the errata you mentioned, and it's of great help. Thanks a lot!
– David Petey Gao
Nov 26 at 19:01
However, the hint says the fact that metric isometries preserve geodesics needs to be proved first. I'm really new to this field and my understanding is a little bit messed up, but how exactly is this proved? Isn't it necessary to use the property of inner products preserving in proving this fact?
– David Petey Gao
Nov 26 at 19:08
You're welcome, I'm glad you've found it helpful. That question perhaps merits a question of its own, but: Geodesics can be defined in an invariant way in terms of the metric, namely, they are the solutions $gamma(t)$ to the differential equation $nabla^g_{gamma'} gamma' = 0$, so since the isometry maps one metric to the other, it maps the geodesics of the first to those of the second.
– Travis
Nov 26 at 19:16
If you prefer something more concrete, for any coordinate chart $(U, phi)$ on $S'$, $(F^{-1}(U), phi circ F)$ is a coordinate chart on $S$. Then, writing the geodesic equations in the two coordinate charts shows that if $gamma(t)$ is a geodesic of $g$ in $F^{-1}(U)$, then $(F circ gamma)(t)$ is a geodesic of $g'$ in $U$.
– Travis
Nov 26 at 19:19
I see. It's indeed true that if F preserves the metric tensor, then the geodesics would be preserved. However, the thing here is that we have only required F to preserve distances, not the metric tensor. The hint in the errata seems to say that in order to prove that such F would indeed preserve the metric tensor, we need to first prove that it will preserve geodesics. How can this be done? Thanks a lot!
– David Petey Gao
Nov 27 at 2:46
I've read the hint in the errata you mentioned, and it's of great help. Thanks a lot!
– David Petey Gao
Nov 26 at 19:01
I've read the hint in the errata you mentioned, and it's of great help. Thanks a lot!
– David Petey Gao
Nov 26 at 19:01
However, the hint says the fact that metric isometries preserve geodesics needs to be proved first. I'm really new to this field and my understanding is a little bit messed up, but how exactly is this proved? Isn't it necessary to use the property of inner products preserving in proving this fact?
– David Petey Gao
Nov 26 at 19:08
However, the hint says the fact that metric isometries preserve geodesics needs to be proved first. I'm really new to this field and my understanding is a little bit messed up, but how exactly is this proved? Isn't it necessary to use the property of inner products preserving in proving this fact?
– David Petey Gao
Nov 26 at 19:08
You're welcome, I'm glad you've found it helpful. That question perhaps merits a question of its own, but: Geodesics can be defined in an invariant way in terms of the metric, namely, they are the solutions $gamma(t)$ to the differential equation $nabla^g_{gamma'} gamma' = 0$, so since the isometry maps one metric to the other, it maps the geodesics of the first to those of the second.
– Travis
Nov 26 at 19:16
You're welcome, I'm glad you've found it helpful. That question perhaps merits a question of its own, but: Geodesics can be defined in an invariant way in terms of the metric, namely, they are the solutions $gamma(t)$ to the differential equation $nabla^g_{gamma'} gamma' = 0$, so since the isometry maps one metric to the other, it maps the geodesics of the first to those of the second.
– Travis
Nov 26 at 19:16
If you prefer something more concrete, for any coordinate chart $(U, phi)$ on $S'$, $(F^{-1}(U), phi circ F)$ is a coordinate chart on $S$. Then, writing the geodesic equations in the two coordinate charts shows that if $gamma(t)$ is a geodesic of $g$ in $F^{-1}(U)$, then $(F circ gamma)(t)$ is a geodesic of $g'$ in $U$.
– Travis
Nov 26 at 19:19
If you prefer something more concrete, for any coordinate chart $(U, phi)$ on $S'$, $(F^{-1}(U), phi circ F)$ is a coordinate chart on $S$. Then, writing the geodesic equations in the two coordinate charts shows that if $gamma(t)$ is a geodesic of $g$ in $F^{-1}(U)$, then $(F circ gamma)(t)$ is a geodesic of $g'$ in $U$.
– Travis
Nov 26 at 19:19
I see. It's indeed true that if F preserves the metric tensor, then the geodesics would be preserved. However, the thing here is that we have only required F to preserve distances, not the metric tensor. The hint in the errata seems to say that in order to prove that such F would indeed preserve the metric tensor, we need to first prove that it will preserve geodesics. How can this be done? Thanks a lot!
– David Petey Gao
Nov 27 at 2:46
I see. It's indeed true that if F preserves the metric tensor, then the geodesics would be preserved. However, the thing here is that we have only required F to preserve distances, not the metric tensor. The hint in the errata seems to say that in order to prove that such F would indeed preserve the metric tensor, we need to first prove that it will preserve geodesics. How can this be done? Thanks a lot!
– David Petey Gao
Nov 27 at 2:46
|
show 7 more comments
up vote
0
down vote
Yes, because $4acdot b=(a+b)^2-(a-b)^2$ or, in the complex case, $4acdot b=sum_{n=0}^3 i^{-n}Vert a+i^n bVert^2$.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Yes, because $4acdot b=(a+b)^2-(a-b)^2$ or, in the complex case, $4acdot b=sum_{n=0}^3 i^{-n}Vert a+i^n bVert^2$.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Yes, because $4acdot b=(a+b)^2-(a-b)^2$ or, in the complex case, $4acdot b=sum_{n=0}^3 i^{-n}Vert a+i^n bVert^2$.
Yes, because $4acdot b=(a+b)^2-(a-b)^2$ or, in the complex case, $4acdot b=sum_{n=0}^3 i^{-n}Vert a+i^n bVert^2$.
answered Nov 25 at 7:12
J.G.
20.1k21932
20.1k21932
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3012525%2fwhether-preserving-inner-products-follows-from-preserving-intrinsic-distances%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown