Doubt regarding $∀x(P(x)→Q(x))→(∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x)))$ validity











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I know this is valid. But from LHS we can infer only for same $x$ for both $P$ and $Q$. So, I want to know how we can directly arrive at $P(a)→Q(b)$, when only information we have is $P(a)→Q(a)$ and $P(b)→Q(b)$.










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  • We have $forall x (Px → Qx)$ and we assume $forall x Px$. Then we derive $Pa to Qa$ and $Pa$ respectively. From them : $Qa$.
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    2 days ago












  • But $a$ is whatever; thus, we can "generalize" on it.
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    2 days ago










  • Consider domain of disourse consisiting of {a,b}. From premises we have P(a)→Q(a) and P(b)→Q(b). Now logically how can we say about P(a)→Q(b) ?
    – user10143594
    2 days ago















up vote
-1
down vote

favorite












I know this is valid. But from LHS we can infer only for same $x$ for both $P$ and $Q$. So, I want to know how we can directly arrive at $P(a)→Q(b)$, when only information we have is $P(a)→Q(a)$ and $P(b)→Q(b)$.










share|cite|improve this question
























  • We have $forall x (Px → Qx)$ and we assume $forall x Px$. Then we derive $Pa to Qa$ and $Pa$ respectively. From them : $Qa$.
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    2 days ago












  • But $a$ is whatever; thus, we can "generalize" on it.
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    2 days ago










  • Consider domain of disourse consisiting of {a,b}. From premises we have P(a)→Q(a) and P(b)→Q(b). Now logically how can we say about P(a)→Q(b) ?
    – user10143594
    2 days ago













up vote
-1
down vote

favorite









up vote
-1
down vote

favorite











I know this is valid. But from LHS we can infer only for same $x$ for both $P$ and $Q$. So, I want to know how we can directly arrive at $P(a)→Q(b)$, when only information we have is $P(a)→Q(a)$ and $P(b)→Q(b)$.










share|cite|improve this question















I know this is valid. But from LHS we can infer only for same $x$ for both $P$ and $Q$. So, I want to know how we can directly arrive at $P(a)→Q(b)$, when only information we have is $P(a)→Q(a)$ and $P(b)→Q(b)$.







logic






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edited 2 days ago









user 170039

10.4k42463




10.4k42463










asked 2 days ago









user10143594

103




103












  • We have $forall x (Px → Qx)$ and we assume $forall x Px$. Then we derive $Pa to Qa$ and $Pa$ respectively. From them : $Qa$.
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    2 days ago












  • But $a$ is whatever; thus, we can "generalize" on it.
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    2 days ago










  • Consider domain of disourse consisiting of {a,b}. From premises we have P(a)→Q(a) and P(b)→Q(b). Now logically how can we say about P(a)→Q(b) ?
    – user10143594
    2 days ago


















  • We have $forall x (Px → Qx)$ and we assume $forall x Px$. Then we derive $Pa to Qa$ and $Pa$ respectively. From them : $Qa$.
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    2 days ago












  • But $a$ is whatever; thus, we can "generalize" on it.
    – Mauro ALLEGRANZA
    2 days ago










  • Consider domain of disourse consisiting of {a,b}. From premises we have P(a)→Q(a) and P(b)→Q(b). Now logically how can we say about P(a)→Q(b) ?
    – user10143594
    2 days ago
















We have $forall x (Px → Qx)$ and we assume $forall x Px$. Then we derive $Pa to Qa$ and $Pa$ respectively. From them : $Qa$.
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
2 days ago






We have $forall x (Px → Qx)$ and we assume $forall x Px$. Then we derive $Pa to Qa$ and $Pa$ respectively. From them : $Qa$.
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
2 days ago














But $a$ is whatever; thus, we can "generalize" on it.
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
2 days ago




But $a$ is whatever; thus, we can "generalize" on it.
– Mauro ALLEGRANZA
2 days ago












Consider domain of disourse consisiting of {a,b}. From premises we have P(a)→Q(a) and P(b)→Q(b). Now logically how can we say about P(a)→Q(b) ?
– user10143594
2 days ago




Consider domain of disourse consisiting of {a,b}. From premises we have P(a)→Q(a) and P(b)→Q(b). Now logically how can we say about P(a)→Q(b) ?
– user10143594
2 days ago










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
0
down vote



accepted










If P holds for all x and for each x, P(x) implies Q(x), then Q holds for all x.
You never need P(a) implies Q(b), but you have guaranteed, on RHS that P(x) for all x, and by LHS, P(x) implies Q(x).



As an example, let the domain be {a, b}.
Suppose LHS valid. Then P(a) implies Q(a) and P(b) implies Q(b). Now, on RHS, suppose for all x, P(x). That is, we have P(a) and P(b) valid. By LHS, P(a) implies Q(a), then Q(a) is valid. Also, P(b) implies Q(b), then Q(b) is valid. Then Q holds for both a and b, that is, Q holds for all x. Then we proved "(for all x P(x)) implies (for all x Q(x))". Note that we are NOT proving "for all x (P(x) implies for all x Q(x))".






share|cite|improve this answer























  • Consider domain of disourse as{a,b}. From premises we have P(a)→Q(a) and P(b)→Q(b). Now logically how can we say about P(a)→Q(b) ?
    – user10143594
    2 days ago










  • First of all consider only premise this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) . After that we have to prove ∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))
    – user10143594
    2 days ago








  • 1




    What you're saying is different from what is written. You are saying "for all x, y, P(x) implies Q(y)". This is different from "for all x P(x) implies for all x Q(x)" . Read it as "the fact that P holds for all x implies that Q also holds for all x".
    – Henrique Lecco
    2 days ago










  • I am saying all we have is this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) and the domain of discourse. Now, I am asking how we can prove it to ∀x(P(x)→Q(x))→(∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))) . I do not want to take this formula as given and then proving it correct. I want to know how to derive it using a example. And that example is using domain of discourse {a,b}
    – user10143594
    2 days ago










  • Suppose LHS valid. Then P(a) implies Q(a) and P(b) implies Q(b). Now, on RHS, suppose for all x, P(x). That is, we have P(a) and P(b) valid. By LHS, P(a) implies Q(a), then Q(a) is valid. Also, P(b) implies Q(b), then Q(b) is valid. Then Q holds for both a and b, that is, Q holds for all x. Then we proved "(for all x P(x)) implies (for all x Q(x))".
    – Henrique Lecco
    2 days ago




















up vote
0
down vote













Do you mean valid in a semantic or deductive way?



Deductively it can be shown as follows:



Assume $forall x( P(x) rightarrow Q(x))$



Suppose $ forall x P(x)$,
Therefore $P(x)$ and as such $Q(x)$ by the assumption. As such $forall x Q(x)$.



That completes the proof. Since natural deduction using the usual rules is semantically valid, then so is the formula. It's valid even constructively.



For an example, let the domain be $A={a,b}$. Now assume:



$$forall x( P(x) rightarrow Q(x))$$



As such:



$$ P(a) rightarrow Q(a),P(b) rightarrow Q(b)$$



Now assume:
$P(a),P(b)$



Therefore by the above: $Q(a),Q(b)$. Since $a,b$ is the whole domain we are allowed to bring in the "for all" quantifier.



And that concludes the proof. Note that model theory would be inconsistent if this was not the case. By the above proof the sentence should hold for all possible worlds.



Finally, there is small error in the question. $P(a)rightarrow Q(b)$ is not the case.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • I am saying all we have is this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) and the domain of discourse. Now, I am asking how we can prove it to ∀x(P(x)→Q(x))→(∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))) . I do not want to take this formula as given and then proving it correct. I want to know how to derive it using a example. And that example is using domain of discourse {a,b}.
    – user10143594
    2 days ago










  • @user10143594 Okay, so you want to show that there is some model that satisfies it? I will edit the post...
    – Dole
    2 days ago










  • If P(a) and P(b) are true and then obviously Q(a) and Q(b) are true. So, P(a) -> Q(b)
    – user10143594
    2 days ago












  • @user10143594 The first statement does not infer that $P(a)rightarrow Q(b)$. It's only after that, when it's assumd that $P(a)$ IS true for all a, that you can make such inference. Sure, that does imply it.
    – Dole
    2 days ago












  • In my above comment, all I wrote was based on your answer only
    – user10143594
    2 days ago











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2 Answers
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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
0
down vote



accepted










If P holds for all x and for each x, P(x) implies Q(x), then Q holds for all x.
You never need P(a) implies Q(b), but you have guaranteed, on RHS that P(x) for all x, and by LHS, P(x) implies Q(x).



As an example, let the domain be {a, b}.
Suppose LHS valid. Then P(a) implies Q(a) and P(b) implies Q(b). Now, on RHS, suppose for all x, P(x). That is, we have P(a) and P(b) valid. By LHS, P(a) implies Q(a), then Q(a) is valid. Also, P(b) implies Q(b), then Q(b) is valid. Then Q holds for both a and b, that is, Q holds for all x. Then we proved "(for all x P(x)) implies (for all x Q(x))". Note that we are NOT proving "for all x (P(x) implies for all x Q(x))".






share|cite|improve this answer























  • Consider domain of disourse as{a,b}. From premises we have P(a)→Q(a) and P(b)→Q(b). Now logically how can we say about P(a)→Q(b) ?
    – user10143594
    2 days ago










  • First of all consider only premise this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) . After that we have to prove ∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))
    – user10143594
    2 days ago








  • 1




    What you're saying is different from what is written. You are saying "for all x, y, P(x) implies Q(y)". This is different from "for all x P(x) implies for all x Q(x)" . Read it as "the fact that P holds for all x implies that Q also holds for all x".
    – Henrique Lecco
    2 days ago










  • I am saying all we have is this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) and the domain of discourse. Now, I am asking how we can prove it to ∀x(P(x)→Q(x))→(∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))) . I do not want to take this formula as given and then proving it correct. I want to know how to derive it using a example. And that example is using domain of discourse {a,b}
    – user10143594
    2 days ago










  • Suppose LHS valid. Then P(a) implies Q(a) and P(b) implies Q(b). Now, on RHS, suppose for all x, P(x). That is, we have P(a) and P(b) valid. By LHS, P(a) implies Q(a), then Q(a) is valid. Also, P(b) implies Q(b), then Q(b) is valid. Then Q holds for both a and b, that is, Q holds for all x. Then we proved "(for all x P(x)) implies (for all x Q(x))".
    – Henrique Lecco
    2 days ago

















up vote
0
down vote



accepted










If P holds for all x and for each x, P(x) implies Q(x), then Q holds for all x.
You never need P(a) implies Q(b), but you have guaranteed, on RHS that P(x) for all x, and by LHS, P(x) implies Q(x).



As an example, let the domain be {a, b}.
Suppose LHS valid. Then P(a) implies Q(a) and P(b) implies Q(b). Now, on RHS, suppose for all x, P(x). That is, we have P(a) and P(b) valid. By LHS, P(a) implies Q(a), then Q(a) is valid. Also, P(b) implies Q(b), then Q(b) is valid. Then Q holds for both a and b, that is, Q holds for all x. Then we proved "(for all x P(x)) implies (for all x Q(x))". Note that we are NOT proving "for all x (P(x) implies for all x Q(x))".






share|cite|improve this answer























  • Consider domain of disourse as{a,b}. From premises we have P(a)→Q(a) and P(b)→Q(b). Now logically how can we say about P(a)→Q(b) ?
    – user10143594
    2 days ago










  • First of all consider only premise this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) . After that we have to prove ∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))
    – user10143594
    2 days ago








  • 1




    What you're saying is different from what is written. You are saying "for all x, y, P(x) implies Q(y)". This is different from "for all x P(x) implies for all x Q(x)" . Read it as "the fact that P holds for all x implies that Q also holds for all x".
    – Henrique Lecco
    2 days ago










  • I am saying all we have is this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) and the domain of discourse. Now, I am asking how we can prove it to ∀x(P(x)→Q(x))→(∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))) . I do not want to take this formula as given and then proving it correct. I want to know how to derive it using a example. And that example is using domain of discourse {a,b}
    – user10143594
    2 days ago










  • Suppose LHS valid. Then P(a) implies Q(a) and P(b) implies Q(b). Now, on RHS, suppose for all x, P(x). That is, we have P(a) and P(b) valid. By LHS, P(a) implies Q(a), then Q(a) is valid. Also, P(b) implies Q(b), then Q(b) is valid. Then Q holds for both a and b, that is, Q holds for all x. Then we proved "(for all x P(x)) implies (for all x Q(x))".
    – Henrique Lecco
    2 days ago















up vote
0
down vote



accepted







up vote
0
down vote



accepted






If P holds for all x and for each x, P(x) implies Q(x), then Q holds for all x.
You never need P(a) implies Q(b), but you have guaranteed, on RHS that P(x) for all x, and by LHS, P(x) implies Q(x).



As an example, let the domain be {a, b}.
Suppose LHS valid. Then P(a) implies Q(a) and P(b) implies Q(b). Now, on RHS, suppose for all x, P(x). That is, we have P(a) and P(b) valid. By LHS, P(a) implies Q(a), then Q(a) is valid. Also, P(b) implies Q(b), then Q(b) is valid. Then Q holds for both a and b, that is, Q holds for all x. Then we proved "(for all x P(x)) implies (for all x Q(x))". Note that we are NOT proving "for all x (P(x) implies for all x Q(x))".






share|cite|improve this answer














If P holds for all x and for each x, P(x) implies Q(x), then Q holds for all x.
You never need P(a) implies Q(b), but you have guaranteed, on RHS that P(x) for all x, and by LHS, P(x) implies Q(x).



As an example, let the domain be {a, b}.
Suppose LHS valid. Then P(a) implies Q(a) and P(b) implies Q(b). Now, on RHS, suppose for all x, P(x). That is, we have P(a) and P(b) valid. By LHS, P(a) implies Q(a), then Q(a) is valid. Also, P(b) implies Q(b), then Q(b) is valid. Then Q holds for both a and b, that is, Q holds for all x. Then we proved "(for all x P(x)) implies (for all x Q(x))". Note that we are NOT proving "for all x (P(x) implies for all x Q(x))".







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited 2 days ago

























answered 2 days ago









Henrique Lecco

362




362












  • Consider domain of disourse as{a,b}. From premises we have P(a)→Q(a) and P(b)→Q(b). Now logically how can we say about P(a)→Q(b) ?
    – user10143594
    2 days ago










  • First of all consider only premise this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) . After that we have to prove ∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))
    – user10143594
    2 days ago








  • 1




    What you're saying is different from what is written. You are saying "for all x, y, P(x) implies Q(y)". This is different from "for all x P(x) implies for all x Q(x)" . Read it as "the fact that P holds for all x implies that Q also holds for all x".
    – Henrique Lecco
    2 days ago










  • I am saying all we have is this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) and the domain of discourse. Now, I am asking how we can prove it to ∀x(P(x)→Q(x))→(∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))) . I do not want to take this formula as given and then proving it correct. I want to know how to derive it using a example. And that example is using domain of discourse {a,b}
    – user10143594
    2 days ago










  • Suppose LHS valid. Then P(a) implies Q(a) and P(b) implies Q(b). Now, on RHS, suppose for all x, P(x). That is, we have P(a) and P(b) valid. By LHS, P(a) implies Q(a), then Q(a) is valid. Also, P(b) implies Q(b), then Q(b) is valid. Then Q holds for both a and b, that is, Q holds for all x. Then we proved "(for all x P(x)) implies (for all x Q(x))".
    – Henrique Lecco
    2 days ago




















  • Consider domain of disourse as{a,b}. From premises we have P(a)→Q(a) and P(b)→Q(b). Now logically how can we say about P(a)→Q(b) ?
    – user10143594
    2 days ago










  • First of all consider only premise this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) . After that we have to prove ∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))
    – user10143594
    2 days ago








  • 1




    What you're saying is different from what is written. You are saying "for all x, y, P(x) implies Q(y)". This is different from "for all x P(x) implies for all x Q(x)" . Read it as "the fact that P holds for all x implies that Q also holds for all x".
    – Henrique Lecco
    2 days ago










  • I am saying all we have is this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) and the domain of discourse. Now, I am asking how we can prove it to ∀x(P(x)→Q(x))→(∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))) . I do not want to take this formula as given and then proving it correct. I want to know how to derive it using a example. And that example is using domain of discourse {a,b}
    – user10143594
    2 days ago










  • Suppose LHS valid. Then P(a) implies Q(a) and P(b) implies Q(b). Now, on RHS, suppose for all x, P(x). That is, we have P(a) and P(b) valid. By LHS, P(a) implies Q(a), then Q(a) is valid. Also, P(b) implies Q(b), then Q(b) is valid. Then Q holds for both a and b, that is, Q holds for all x. Then we proved "(for all x P(x)) implies (for all x Q(x))".
    – Henrique Lecco
    2 days ago


















Consider domain of disourse as{a,b}. From premises we have P(a)→Q(a) and P(b)→Q(b). Now logically how can we say about P(a)→Q(b) ?
– user10143594
2 days ago




Consider domain of disourse as{a,b}. From premises we have P(a)→Q(a) and P(b)→Q(b). Now logically how can we say about P(a)→Q(b) ?
– user10143594
2 days ago












First of all consider only premise this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) . After that we have to prove ∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))
– user10143594
2 days ago






First of all consider only premise this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) . After that we have to prove ∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))
– user10143594
2 days ago






1




1




What you're saying is different from what is written. You are saying "for all x, y, P(x) implies Q(y)". This is different from "for all x P(x) implies for all x Q(x)" . Read it as "the fact that P holds for all x implies that Q also holds for all x".
– Henrique Lecco
2 days ago




What you're saying is different from what is written. You are saying "for all x, y, P(x) implies Q(y)". This is different from "for all x P(x) implies for all x Q(x)" . Read it as "the fact that P holds for all x implies that Q also holds for all x".
– Henrique Lecco
2 days ago












I am saying all we have is this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) and the domain of discourse. Now, I am asking how we can prove it to ∀x(P(x)→Q(x))→(∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))) . I do not want to take this formula as given and then proving it correct. I want to know how to derive it using a example. And that example is using domain of discourse {a,b}
– user10143594
2 days ago




I am saying all we have is this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) and the domain of discourse. Now, I am asking how we can prove it to ∀x(P(x)→Q(x))→(∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))) . I do not want to take this formula as given and then proving it correct. I want to know how to derive it using a example. And that example is using domain of discourse {a,b}
– user10143594
2 days ago












Suppose LHS valid. Then P(a) implies Q(a) and P(b) implies Q(b). Now, on RHS, suppose for all x, P(x). That is, we have P(a) and P(b) valid. By LHS, P(a) implies Q(a), then Q(a) is valid. Also, P(b) implies Q(b), then Q(b) is valid. Then Q holds for both a and b, that is, Q holds for all x. Then we proved "(for all x P(x)) implies (for all x Q(x))".
– Henrique Lecco
2 days ago






Suppose LHS valid. Then P(a) implies Q(a) and P(b) implies Q(b). Now, on RHS, suppose for all x, P(x). That is, we have P(a) and P(b) valid. By LHS, P(a) implies Q(a), then Q(a) is valid. Also, P(b) implies Q(b), then Q(b) is valid. Then Q holds for both a and b, that is, Q holds for all x. Then we proved "(for all x P(x)) implies (for all x Q(x))".
– Henrique Lecco
2 days ago












up vote
0
down vote













Do you mean valid in a semantic or deductive way?



Deductively it can be shown as follows:



Assume $forall x( P(x) rightarrow Q(x))$



Suppose $ forall x P(x)$,
Therefore $P(x)$ and as such $Q(x)$ by the assumption. As such $forall x Q(x)$.



That completes the proof. Since natural deduction using the usual rules is semantically valid, then so is the formula. It's valid even constructively.



For an example, let the domain be $A={a,b}$. Now assume:



$$forall x( P(x) rightarrow Q(x))$$



As such:



$$ P(a) rightarrow Q(a),P(b) rightarrow Q(b)$$



Now assume:
$P(a),P(b)$



Therefore by the above: $Q(a),Q(b)$. Since $a,b$ is the whole domain we are allowed to bring in the "for all" quantifier.



And that concludes the proof. Note that model theory would be inconsistent if this was not the case. By the above proof the sentence should hold for all possible worlds.



Finally, there is small error in the question. $P(a)rightarrow Q(b)$ is not the case.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • I am saying all we have is this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) and the domain of discourse. Now, I am asking how we can prove it to ∀x(P(x)→Q(x))→(∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))) . I do not want to take this formula as given and then proving it correct. I want to know how to derive it using a example. And that example is using domain of discourse {a,b}.
    – user10143594
    2 days ago










  • @user10143594 Okay, so you want to show that there is some model that satisfies it? I will edit the post...
    – Dole
    2 days ago










  • If P(a) and P(b) are true and then obviously Q(a) and Q(b) are true. So, P(a) -> Q(b)
    – user10143594
    2 days ago












  • @user10143594 The first statement does not infer that $P(a)rightarrow Q(b)$. It's only after that, when it's assumd that $P(a)$ IS true for all a, that you can make such inference. Sure, that does imply it.
    – Dole
    2 days ago












  • In my above comment, all I wrote was based on your answer only
    – user10143594
    2 days ago















up vote
0
down vote













Do you mean valid in a semantic or deductive way?



Deductively it can be shown as follows:



Assume $forall x( P(x) rightarrow Q(x))$



Suppose $ forall x P(x)$,
Therefore $P(x)$ and as such $Q(x)$ by the assumption. As such $forall x Q(x)$.



That completes the proof. Since natural deduction using the usual rules is semantically valid, then so is the formula. It's valid even constructively.



For an example, let the domain be $A={a,b}$. Now assume:



$$forall x( P(x) rightarrow Q(x))$$



As such:



$$ P(a) rightarrow Q(a),P(b) rightarrow Q(b)$$



Now assume:
$P(a),P(b)$



Therefore by the above: $Q(a),Q(b)$. Since $a,b$ is the whole domain we are allowed to bring in the "for all" quantifier.



And that concludes the proof. Note that model theory would be inconsistent if this was not the case. By the above proof the sentence should hold for all possible worlds.



Finally, there is small error in the question. $P(a)rightarrow Q(b)$ is not the case.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • I am saying all we have is this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) and the domain of discourse. Now, I am asking how we can prove it to ∀x(P(x)→Q(x))→(∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))) . I do not want to take this formula as given and then proving it correct. I want to know how to derive it using a example. And that example is using domain of discourse {a,b}.
    – user10143594
    2 days ago










  • @user10143594 Okay, so you want to show that there is some model that satisfies it? I will edit the post...
    – Dole
    2 days ago










  • If P(a) and P(b) are true and then obviously Q(a) and Q(b) are true. So, P(a) -> Q(b)
    – user10143594
    2 days ago












  • @user10143594 The first statement does not infer that $P(a)rightarrow Q(b)$. It's only after that, when it's assumd that $P(a)$ IS true for all a, that you can make such inference. Sure, that does imply it.
    – Dole
    2 days ago












  • In my above comment, all I wrote was based on your answer only
    – user10143594
    2 days ago













up vote
0
down vote










up vote
0
down vote









Do you mean valid in a semantic or deductive way?



Deductively it can be shown as follows:



Assume $forall x( P(x) rightarrow Q(x))$



Suppose $ forall x P(x)$,
Therefore $P(x)$ and as such $Q(x)$ by the assumption. As such $forall x Q(x)$.



That completes the proof. Since natural deduction using the usual rules is semantically valid, then so is the formula. It's valid even constructively.



For an example, let the domain be $A={a,b}$. Now assume:



$$forall x( P(x) rightarrow Q(x))$$



As such:



$$ P(a) rightarrow Q(a),P(b) rightarrow Q(b)$$



Now assume:
$P(a),P(b)$



Therefore by the above: $Q(a),Q(b)$. Since $a,b$ is the whole domain we are allowed to bring in the "for all" quantifier.



And that concludes the proof. Note that model theory would be inconsistent if this was not the case. By the above proof the sentence should hold for all possible worlds.



Finally, there is small error in the question. $P(a)rightarrow Q(b)$ is not the case.






share|cite|improve this answer














Do you mean valid in a semantic or deductive way?



Deductively it can be shown as follows:



Assume $forall x( P(x) rightarrow Q(x))$



Suppose $ forall x P(x)$,
Therefore $P(x)$ and as such $Q(x)$ by the assumption. As such $forall x Q(x)$.



That completes the proof. Since natural deduction using the usual rules is semantically valid, then so is the formula. It's valid even constructively.



For an example, let the domain be $A={a,b}$. Now assume:



$$forall x( P(x) rightarrow Q(x))$$



As such:



$$ P(a) rightarrow Q(a),P(b) rightarrow Q(b)$$



Now assume:
$P(a),P(b)$



Therefore by the above: $Q(a),Q(b)$. Since $a,b$ is the whole domain we are allowed to bring in the "for all" quantifier.



And that concludes the proof. Note that model theory would be inconsistent if this was not the case. By the above proof the sentence should hold for all possible worlds.



Finally, there is small error in the question. $P(a)rightarrow Q(b)$ is not the case.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited 2 days ago

























answered 2 days ago









Dole

872514




872514












  • I am saying all we have is this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) and the domain of discourse. Now, I am asking how we can prove it to ∀x(P(x)→Q(x))→(∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))) . I do not want to take this formula as given and then proving it correct. I want to know how to derive it using a example. And that example is using domain of discourse {a,b}.
    – user10143594
    2 days ago










  • @user10143594 Okay, so you want to show that there is some model that satisfies it? I will edit the post...
    – Dole
    2 days ago










  • If P(a) and P(b) are true and then obviously Q(a) and Q(b) are true. So, P(a) -> Q(b)
    – user10143594
    2 days ago












  • @user10143594 The first statement does not infer that $P(a)rightarrow Q(b)$. It's only after that, when it's assumd that $P(a)$ IS true for all a, that you can make such inference. Sure, that does imply it.
    – Dole
    2 days ago












  • In my above comment, all I wrote was based on your answer only
    – user10143594
    2 days ago


















  • I am saying all we have is this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) and the domain of discourse. Now, I am asking how we can prove it to ∀x(P(x)→Q(x))→(∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))) . I do not want to take this formula as given and then proving it correct. I want to know how to derive it using a example. And that example is using domain of discourse {a,b}.
    – user10143594
    2 days ago










  • @user10143594 Okay, so you want to show that there is some model that satisfies it? I will edit the post...
    – Dole
    2 days ago










  • If P(a) and P(b) are true and then obviously Q(a) and Q(b) are true. So, P(a) -> Q(b)
    – user10143594
    2 days ago












  • @user10143594 The first statement does not infer that $P(a)rightarrow Q(b)$. It's only after that, when it's assumd that $P(a)$ IS true for all a, that you can make such inference. Sure, that does imply it.
    – Dole
    2 days ago












  • In my above comment, all I wrote was based on your answer only
    – user10143594
    2 days ago
















I am saying all we have is this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) and the domain of discourse. Now, I am asking how we can prove it to ∀x(P(x)→Q(x))→(∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))) . I do not want to take this formula as given and then proving it correct. I want to know how to derive it using a example. And that example is using domain of discourse {a,b}.
– user10143594
2 days ago




I am saying all we have is this ∀x(P(x)→Q(x)) and the domain of discourse. Now, I am asking how we can prove it to ∀x(P(x)→Q(x))→(∀x(P(x))→∀x(Q(x))) . I do not want to take this formula as given and then proving it correct. I want to know how to derive it using a example. And that example is using domain of discourse {a,b}.
– user10143594
2 days ago












@user10143594 Okay, so you want to show that there is some model that satisfies it? I will edit the post...
– Dole
2 days ago




@user10143594 Okay, so you want to show that there is some model that satisfies it? I will edit the post...
– Dole
2 days ago












If P(a) and P(b) are true and then obviously Q(a) and Q(b) are true. So, P(a) -> Q(b)
– user10143594
2 days ago






If P(a) and P(b) are true and then obviously Q(a) and Q(b) are true. So, P(a) -> Q(b)
– user10143594
2 days ago














@user10143594 The first statement does not infer that $P(a)rightarrow Q(b)$. It's only after that, when it's assumd that $P(a)$ IS true for all a, that you can make such inference. Sure, that does imply it.
– Dole
2 days ago






@user10143594 The first statement does not infer that $P(a)rightarrow Q(b)$. It's only after that, when it's assumd that $P(a)$ IS true for all a, that you can make such inference. Sure, that does imply it.
– Dole
2 days ago














In my above comment, all I wrote was based on your answer only
– user10143594
2 days ago




In my above comment, all I wrote was based on your answer only
– user10143594
2 days ago


















 

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