Proof verification of $x_n = frac{2-cospi n}{2+cos pi n}$ does not have a limit using $varepsilon$ definition











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Let:
$$
begin{cases}
x_n = frac{2-cospi n}{2+cos pi n} \
a = 3
end{cases}
$$

Prove that $a$ is not the limit of ${x_n}$ using $varepsilon$ definition.




Start with the definition of limit:
$$
lim_{nto infty}x_n = a stackrel{text{def}}{iff} {forall varepsilon > 0, exists N in mathbb N, forall n>N:|x_n - a| < varepsilon }
$$



Now negate that definition. For the sequence to not have a limit we have the following to be true:



$$
{exists varepsilon >0, forall N in mathbb N, exists n > N: |x_n - a| ge varepsilon}
$$



Try to find such epsilon. Since $n in mathbb N$ we have that for $kinmathbb N$:



$$
begin{equation}
|x_n| =
begin{cases}
3, & n=2k -1, \
{1over 3}, & n = 2k
end{cases}
end{equation}
$$



Now take for instance $varepsilon = 1$. With that $varepsilon$ for any $N$ we may find infinitely many $n$ such that $n > N text{and} |x_n -3| ge 1$. Thus the sequence does not have a limit.



I'm kindly asking to verify two things:




  1. The negation of limit definition

  2. The proof itself


Btw is it true that any periodic sequence doesn't have a limit?



Thank you!










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  • $x_n=frac{1}{3}$ if n=even , and if n=odd $x_n=3$
    – Dadrahm
    Nov 22 at 15:54












  • @Dadrahm right, i've spotted that as well. It should be $3$ instead of $2$
    – roman
    Nov 22 at 15:55















up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1













Let:
$$
begin{cases}
x_n = frac{2-cospi n}{2+cos pi n} \
a = 3
end{cases}
$$

Prove that $a$ is not the limit of ${x_n}$ using $varepsilon$ definition.




Start with the definition of limit:
$$
lim_{nto infty}x_n = a stackrel{text{def}}{iff} {forall varepsilon > 0, exists N in mathbb N, forall n>N:|x_n - a| < varepsilon }
$$



Now negate that definition. For the sequence to not have a limit we have the following to be true:



$$
{exists varepsilon >0, forall N in mathbb N, exists n > N: |x_n - a| ge varepsilon}
$$



Try to find such epsilon. Since $n in mathbb N$ we have that for $kinmathbb N$:



$$
begin{equation}
|x_n| =
begin{cases}
3, & n=2k -1, \
{1over 3}, & n = 2k
end{cases}
end{equation}
$$



Now take for instance $varepsilon = 1$. With that $varepsilon$ for any $N$ we may find infinitely many $n$ such that $n > N text{and} |x_n -3| ge 1$. Thus the sequence does not have a limit.



I'm kindly asking to verify two things:




  1. The negation of limit definition

  2. The proof itself


Btw is it true that any periodic sequence doesn't have a limit?



Thank you!










share|cite|improve this question






















  • $x_n=frac{1}{3}$ if n=even , and if n=odd $x_n=3$
    – Dadrahm
    Nov 22 at 15:54












  • @Dadrahm right, i've spotted that as well. It should be $3$ instead of $2$
    – roman
    Nov 22 at 15:55













up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
2
down vote

favorite
1






1






Let:
$$
begin{cases}
x_n = frac{2-cospi n}{2+cos pi n} \
a = 3
end{cases}
$$

Prove that $a$ is not the limit of ${x_n}$ using $varepsilon$ definition.




Start with the definition of limit:
$$
lim_{nto infty}x_n = a stackrel{text{def}}{iff} {forall varepsilon > 0, exists N in mathbb N, forall n>N:|x_n - a| < varepsilon }
$$



Now negate that definition. For the sequence to not have a limit we have the following to be true:



$$
{exists varepsilon >0, forall N in mathbb N, exists n > N: |x_n - a| ge varepsilon}
$$



Try to find such epsilon. Since $n in mathbb N$ we have that for $kinmathbb N$:



$$
begin{equation}
|x_n| =
begin{cases}
3, & n=2k -1, \
{1over 3}, & n = 2k
end{cases}
end{equation}
$$



Now take for instance $varepsilon = 1$. With that $varepsilon$ for any $N$ we may find infinitely many $n$ such that $n > N text{and} |x_n -3| ge 1$. Thus the sequence does not have a limit.



I'm kindly asking to verify two things:




  1. The negation of limit definition

  2. The proof itself


Btw is it true that any periodic sequence doesn't have a limit?



Thank you!










share|cite|improve this question














Let:
$$
begin{cases}
x_n = frac{2-cospi n}{2+cos pi n} \
a = 3
end{cases}
$$

Prove that $a$ is not the limit of ${x_n}$ using $varepsilon$ definition.




Start with the definition of limit:
$$
lim_{nto infty}x_n = a stackrel{text{def}}{iff} {forall varepsilon > 0, exists N in mathbb N, forall n>N:|x_n - a| < varepsilon }
$$



Now negate that definition. For the sequence to not have a limit we have the following to be true:



$$
{exists varepsilon >0, forall N in mathbb N, exists n > N: |x_n - a| ge varepsilon}
$$



Try to find such epsilon. Since $n in mathbb N$ we have that for $kinmathbb N$:



$$
begin{equation}
|x_n| =
begin{cases}
3, & n=2k -1, \
{1over 3}, & n = 2k
end{cases}
end{equation}
$$



Now take for instance $varepsilon = 1$. With that $varepsilon$ for any $N$ we may find infinitely many $n$ such that $n > N text{and} |x_n -3| ge 1$. Thus the sequence does not have a limit.



I'm kindly asking to verify two things:




  1. The negation of limit definition

  2. The proof itself


Btw is it true that any periodic sequence doesn't have a limit?



Thank you!







calculus limits proof-verification epsilon-delta






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asked Nov 22 at 15:49









roman

9701815




9701815












  • $x_n=frac{1}{3}$ if n=even , and if n=odd $x_n=3$
    – Dadrahm
    Nov 22 at 15:54












  • @Dadrahm right, i've spotted that as well. It should be $3$ instead of $2$
    – roman
    Nov 22 at 15:55


















  • $x_n=frac{1}{3}$ if n=even , and if n=odd $x_n=3$
    – Dadrahm
    Nov 22 at 15:54












  • @Dadrahm right, i've spotted that as well. It should be $3$ instead of $2$
    – roman
    Nov 22 at 15:55
















$x_n=frac{1}{3}$ if n=even , and if n=odd $x_n=3$
– Dadrahm
Nov 22 at 15:54






$x_n=frac{1}{3}$ if n=even , and if n=odd $x_n=3$
– Dadrahm
Nov 22 at 15:54














@Dadrahm right, i've spotted that as well. It should be $3$ instead of $2$
– roman
Nov 22 at 15:55




@Dadrahm right, i've spotted that as well. It should be $3$ instead of $2$
– roman
Nov 22 at 15:55










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
1
down vote



accepted










The definition of the limit relies on finding an arbitrary $varepsilon >0$ but as small as you would like to, essentialy "reaching" zero thus $x_n to a$. Since you found a $varepsilon >0$ such that the sequence does not converge (meaning that $|x_n - a | geq epsilon$) then indeed the sequence does not have a limit.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • Did OP really prove that, no matter what $a$ is chosen, there is an $x_n$ further than $1$ from $a$? [I think that would be straightforward from the formulas for $a_n$ depending on parity of $n$ that he put in post.]
    – coffeemath
    Nov 22 at 16:03












  • I don't see how $frac{sin(n)}{2^n}$ is periodic. What would be it's period?
    – roman
    Nov 22 at 16:04






  • 1




    @coffeemath but $a$ is given to equal $3$, do we really need to consider the case of "any" $a$?
    – roman
    Nov 22 at 16:10










  • @roman Sorry, I thought you meant a sequence involving periodic terms. As for the convergence part, your proof is correct. Since you are only interested for $a=3$ it is enough what you've done. The case of any $a$ determines just a wider form of limit.
    – Rebellos
    Nov 22 at 16:17










  • @coffeemath Since the OP is interested for the value of a supposed limit of $a=3$ he/she does not have to check for all the cases of limits $a in mathbb R$.
    – Rebellos
    Nov 22 at 16:18











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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
1
down vote



accepted










The definition of the limit relies on finding an arbitrary $varepsilon >0$ but as small as you would like to, essentialy "reaching" zero thus $x_n to a$. Since you found a $varepsilon >0$ such that the sequence does not converge (meaning that $|x_n - a | geq epsilon$) then indeed the sequence does not have a limit.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • Did OP really prove that, no matter what $a$ is chosen, there is an $x_n$ further than $1$ from $a$? [I think that would be straightforward from the formulas for $a_n$ depending on parity of $n$ that he put in post.]
    – coffeemath
    Nov 22 at 16:03












  • I don't see how $frac{sin(n)}{2^n}$ is periodic. What would be it's period?
    – roman
    Nov 22 at 16:04






  • 1




    @coffeemath but $a$ is given to equal $3$, do we really need to consider the case of "any" $a$?
    – roman
    Nov 22 at 16:10










  • @roman Sorry, I thought you meant a sequence involving periodic terms. As for the convergence part, your proof is correct. Since you are only interested for $a=3$ it is enough what you've done. The case of any $a$ determines just a wider form of limit.
    – Rebellos
    Nov 22 at 16:17










  • @coffeemath Since the OP is interested for the value of a supposed limit of $a=3$ he/she does not have to check for all the cases of limits $a in mathbb R$.
    – Rebellos
    Nov 22 at 16:18















up vote
1
down vote



accepted










The definition of the limit relies on finding an arbitrary $varepsilon >0$ but as small as you would like to, essentialy "reaching" zero thus $x_n to a$. Since you found a $varepsilon >0$ such that the sequence does not converge (meaning that $|x_n - a | geq epsilon$) then indeed the sequence does not have a limit.






share|cite|improve this answer























  • Did OP really prove that, no matter what $a$ is chosen, there is an $x_n$ further than $1$ from $a$? [I think that would be straightforward from the formulas for $a_n$ depending on parity of $n$ that he put in post.]
    – coffeemath
    Nov 22 at 16:03












  • I don't see how $frac{sin(n)}{2^n}$ is periodic. What would be it's period?
    – roman
    Nov 22 at 16:04






  • 1




    @coffeemath but $a$ is given to equal $3$, do we really need to consider the case of "any" $a$?
    – roman
    Nov 22 at 16:10










  • @roman Sorry, I thought you meant a sequence involving periodic terms. As for the convergence part, your proof is correct. Since you are only interested for $a=3$ it is enough what you've done. The case of any $a$ determines just a wider form of limit.
    – Rebellos
    Nov 22 at 16:17










  • @coffeemath Since the OP is interested for the value of a supposed limit of $a=3$ he/she does not have to check for all the cases of limits $a in mathbb R$.
    – Rebellos
    Nov 22 at 16:18













up vote
1
down vote



accepted







up vote
1
down vote



accepted






The definition of the limit relies on finding an arbitrary $varepsilon >0$ but as small as you would like to, essentialy "reaching" zero thus $x_n to a$. Since you found a $varepsilon >0$ such that the sequence does not converge (meaning that $|x_n - a | geq epsilon$) then indeed the sequence does not have a limit.






share|cite|improve this answer














The definition of the limit relies on finding an arbitrary $varepsilon >0$ but as small as you would like to, essentialy "reaching" zero thus $x_n to a$. Since you found a $varepsilon >0$ such that the sequence does not converge (meaning that $|x_n - a | geq epsilon$) then indeed the sequence does not have a limit.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Nov 22 at 16:16

























answered Nov 22 at 15:56









Rebellos

12.2k21041




12.2k21041












  • Did OP really prove that, no matter what $a$ is chosen, there is an $x_n$ further than $1$ from $a$? [I think that would be straightforward from the formulas for $a_n$ depending on parity of $n$ that he put in post.]
    – coffeemath
    Nov 22 at 16:03












  • I don't see how $frac{sin(n)}{2^n}$ is periodic. What would be it's period?
    – roman
    Nov 22 at 16:04






  • 1




    @coffeemath but $a$ is given to equal $3$, do we really need to consider the case of "any" $a$?
    – roman
    Nov 22 at 16:10










  • @roman Sorry, I thought you meant a sequence involving periodic terms. As for the convergence part, your proof is correct. Since you are only interested for $a=3$ it is enough what you've done. The case of any $a$ determines just a wider form of limit.
    – Rebellos
    Nov 22 at 16:17










  • @coffeemath Since the OP is interested for the value of a supposed limit of $a=3$ he/she does not have to check for all the cases of limits $a in mathbb R$.
    – Rebellos
    Nov 22 at 16:18


















  • Did OP really prove that, no matter what $a$ is chosen, there is an $x_n$ further than $1$ from $a$? [I think that would be straightforward from the formulas for $a_n$ depending on parity of $n$ that he put in post.]
    – coffeemath
    Nov 22 at 16:03












  • I don't see how $frac{sin(n)}{2^n}$ is periodic. What would be it's period?
    – roman
    Nov 22 at 16:04






  • 1




    @coffeemath but $a$ is given to equal $3$, do we really need to consider the case of "any" $a$?
    – roman
    Nov 22 at 16:10










  • @roman Sorry, I thought you meant a sequence involving periodic terms. As for the convergence part, your proof is correct. Since you are only interested for $a=3$ it is enough what you've done. The case of any $a$ determines just a wider form of limit.
    – Rebellos
    Nov 22 at 16:17










  • @coffeemath Since the OP is interested for the value of a supposed limit of $a=3$ he/she does not have to check for all the cases of limits $a in mathbb R$.
    – Rebellos
    Nov 22 at 16:18
















Did OP really prove that, no matter what $a$ is chosen, there is an $x_n$ further than $1$ from $a$? [I think that would be straightforward from the formulas for $a_n$ depending on parity of $n$ that he put in post.]
– coffeemath
Nov 22 at 16:03






Did OP really prove that, no matter what $a$ is chosen, there is an $x_n$ further than $1$ from $a$? [I think that would be straightforward from the formulas for $a_n$ depending on parity of $n$ that he put in post.]
– coffeemath
Nov 22 at 16:03














I don't see how $frac{sin(n)}{2^n}$ is periodic. What would be it's period?
– roman
Nov 22 at 16:04




I don't see how $frac{sin(n)}{2^n}$ is periodic. What would be it's period?
– roman
Nov 22 at 16:04




1




1




@coffeemath but $a$ is given to equal $3$, do we really need to consider the case of "any" $a$?
– roman
Nov 22 at 16:10




@coffeemath but $a$ is given to equal $3$, do we really need to consider the case of "any" $a$?
– roman
Nov 22 at 16:10












@roman Sorry, I thought you meant a sequence involving periodic terms. As for the convergence part, your proof is correct. Since you are only interested for $a=3$ it is enough what you've done. The case of any $a$ determines just a wider form of limit.
– Rebellos
Nov 22 at 16:17




@roman Sorry, I thought you meant a sequence involving periodic terms. As for the convergence part, your proof is correct. Since you are only interested for $a=3$ it is enough what you've done. The case of any $a$ determines just a wider form of limit.
– Rebellos
Nov 22 at 16:17












@coffeemath Since the OP is interested for the value of a supposed limit of $a=3$ he/she does not have to check for all the cases of limits $a in mathbb R$.
– Rebellos
Nov 22 at 16:18




@coffeemath Since the OP is interested for the value of a supposed limit of $a=3$ he/she does not have to check for all the cases of limits $a in mathbb R$.
– Rebellos
Nov 22 at 16:18


















 

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