Simple Analogy to explain $sum_{n=1}^infty n = -1/12$












4














I'm looking for a simplified analogy to explain why the following formula does not actually mean what it seems to mean:



$sum_{n=1}^infty n = -frac{1}{12}$



I get this question all the time from high school students, probably because it was popularized by Numberphile on Youtube. (See video here and see associated post here)



Since the concept of power series expansion is tough for a lot of high school students to get (let alone the zeta function or analytic continuation), I'd like to give them some accessible way to understand how that equal sign isn't really doing what we normally think it is.



I am partially indebted to the answer of user3002473 here.



Please let me know if my understanding of the problem is correct and if my analogy makes sense and is apt:




  • My understanding of the problem:


The zeta function exists everywhere in the complex plane, but its power series representation is valid only on a portion of the plane.



The equation $sum_{n=1}^infty n = -frac{1}{12}$ is therefore the result of equating the "analytic continuation of the function" at a point outside the power series representation domain with the numerical value of the power series computed at that point.



In other words, each side of the equal sign is a valid representation of the zeta function, but neither representation is actually trying to communicate the numerical value of the function at that point.




  • My analogy:


Consider a non-vertical line in the plane with slope, $2$, and y-intercept, $3$. We can describe this line as a function between two sets of numbers, $f:Xrightarrow Y$



Clearly, we can see that the graph is one visual representation of the function, but we can also represent it as an equation in slope-intercept form: $f(x) = 2x+3$



Now, suppose I wanted to represent this line as a function with $x$ in the denominator. I could do that like this:



$g(x) = frac{2x^2+3x}{x}$



This is clearly a valid representation of my linear function, but it breaks down at the point $x=0$, like so:



$g(0) = frac{2times 0^2+3times 0}{0} = frac{0}{0}$



As we all know, $frac{0}{0}$ is "undefined".



Key point: The original function exists at $x=0$, but the specific representation $g(x)$ fails at that point.



Now, I could say, "We all know that $frac{0}{0}$ is undefined. But for this function, we have enough information to 'define' it."



That is, we know that in the original function, the input $x=0$ is associated uniquely with the output $3$.



So, since $g(x)$ is a representation of our function, we could (strongly waving our hands) say that the output $g(0) = 3$



But then, we've just "proved": $3 = frac{0}{0}$



No, not really. All we did was take equate two different representations, each valid over different domains, and equate them at a point they don't have in common.



Is this a reasonably accurate analogy to the trouble with $sum_{n=1}^infty n = -frac{1}{12}$ ?










share|cite|improve this question


















  • 3




    this video is enough apt for your students? Your argumentation is similar, Im not sure how well this analogy can be, but it seems fine for a first approximation to the expression
    – Masacroso
    Nov 30 at 17:24








  • 1




    "each side of the equal sign is a valid representation of the zeta function, but neither representation is actually trying to communicate the numerical value of the function at that point." I'm no expert, but I think the Riemann zeta function is defined as the analytic continuation of $sum n^{-s}$, and its value at $s=-1$ is exactly $-1/12$. So, the left-hand side $sum n$ is not a value of the Riemann zeta function, but the right-hand side is.
    – Rahul
    Nov 30 at 17:45










  • Trying to evaluate power series expansion outside of it's radius of convergence.
    – mathreadler
    Nov 30 at 18:16
















4














I'm looking for a simplified analogy to explain why the following formula does not actually mean what it seems to mean:



$sum_{n=1}^infty n = -frac{1}{12}$



I get this question all the time from high school students, probably because it was popularized by Numberphile on Youtube. (See video here and see associated post here)



Since the concept of power series expansion is tough for a lot of high school students to get (let alone the zeta function or analytic continuation), I'd like to give them some accessible way to understand how that equal sign isn't really doing what we normally think it is.



I am partially indebted to the answer of user3002473 here.



Please let me know if my understanding of the problem is correct and if my analogy makes sense and is apt:




  • My understanding of the problem:


The zeta function exists everywhere in the complex plane, but its power series representation is valid only on a portion of the plane.



The equation $sum_{n=1}^infty n = -frac{1}{12}$ is therefore the result of equating the "analytic continuation of the function" at a point outside the power series representation domain with the numerical value of the power series computed at that point.



In other words, each side of the equal sign is a valid representation of the zeta function, but neither representation is actually trying to communicate the numerical value of the function at that point.




  • My analogy:


Consider a non-vertical line in the plane with slope, $2$, and y-intercept, $3$. We can describe this line as a function between two sets of numbers, $f:Xrightarrow Y$



Clearly, we can see that the graph is one visual representation of the function, but we can also represent it as an equation in slope-intercept form: $f(x) = 2x+3$



Now, suppose I wanted to represent this line as a function with $x$ in the denominator. I could do that like this:



$g(x) = frac{2x^2+3x}{x}$



This is clearly a valid representation of my linear function, but it breaks down at the point $x=0$, like so:



$g(0) = frac{2times 0^2+3times 0}{0} = frac{0}{0}$



As we all know, $frac{0}{0}$ is "undefined".



Key point: The original function exists at $x=0$, but the specific representation $g(x)$ fails at that point.



Now, I could say, "We all know that $frac{0}{0}$ is undefined. But for this function, we have enough information to 'define' it."



That is, we know that in the original function, the input $x=0$ is associated uniquely with the output $3$.



So, since $g(x)$ is a representation of our function, we could (strongly waving our hands) say that the output $g(0) = 3$



But then, we've just "proved": $3 = frac{0}{0}$



No, not really. All we did was take equate two different representations, each valid over different domains, and equate them at a point they don't have in common.



Is this a reasonably accurate analogy to the trouble with $sum_{n=1}^infty n = -frac{1}{12}$ ?










share|cite|improve this question


















  • 3




    this video is enough apt for your students? Your argumentation is similar, Im not sure how well this analogy can be, but it seems fine for a first approximation to the expression
    – Masacroso
    Nov 30 at 17:24








  • 1




    "each side of the equal sign is a valid representation of the zeta function, but neither representation is actually trying to communicate the numerical value of the function at that point." I'm no expert, but I think the Riemann zeta function is defined as the analytic continuation of $sum n^{-s}$, and its value at $s=-1$ is exactly $-1/12$. So, the left-hand side $sum n$ is not a value of the Riemann zeta function, but the right-hand side is.
    – Rahul
    Nov 30 at 17:45










  • Trying to evaluate power series expansion outside of it's radius of convergence.
    – mathreadler
    Nov 30 at 18:16














4












4








4







I'm looking for a simplified analogy to explain why the following formula does not actually mean what it seems to mean:



$sum_{n=1}^infty n = -frac{1}{12}$



I get this question all the time from high school students, probably because it was popularized by Numberphile on Youtube. (See video here and see associated post here)



Since the concept of power series expansion is tough for a lot of high school students to get (let alone the zeta function or analytic continuation), I'd like to give them some accessible way to understand how that equal sign isn't really doing what we normally think it is.



I am partially indebted to the answer of user3002473 here.



Please let me know if my understanding of the problem is correct and if my analogy makes sense and is apt:




  • My understanding of the problem:


The zeta function exists everywhere in the complex plane, but its power series representation is valid only on a portion of the plane.



The equation $sum_{n=1}^infty n = -frac{1}{12}$ is therefore the result of equating the "analytic continuation of the function" at a point outside the power series representation domain with the numerical value of the power series computed at that point.



In other words, each side of the equal sign is a valid representation of the zeta function, but neither representation is actually trying to communicate the numerical value of the function at that point.




  • My analogy:


Consider a non-vertical line in the plane with slope, $2$, and y-intercept, $3$. We can describe this line as a function between two sets of numbers, $f:Xrightarrow Y$



Clearly, we can see that the graph is one visual representation of the function, but we can also represent it as an equation in slope-intercept form: $f(x) = 2x+3$



Now, suppose I wanted to represent this line as a function with $x$ in the denominator. I could do that like this:



$g(x) = frac{2x^2+3x}{x}$



This is clearly a valid representation of my linear function, but it breaks down at the point $x=0$, like so:



$g(0) = frac{2times 0^2+3times 0}{0} = frac{0}{0}$



As we all know, $frac{0}{0}$ is "undefined".



Key point: The original function exists at $x=0$, but the specific representation $g(x)$ fails at that point.



Now, I could say, "We all know that $frac{0}{0}$ is undefined. But for this function, we have enough information to 'define' it."



That is, we know that in the original function, the input $x=0$ is associated uniquely with the output $3$.



So, since $g(x)$ is a representation of our function, we could (strongly waving our hands) say that the output $g(0) = 3$



But then, we've just "proved": $3 = frac{0}{0}$



No, not really. All we did was take equate two different representations, each valid over different domains, and equate them at a point they don't have in common.



Is this a reasonably accurate analogy to the trouble with $sum_{n=1}^infty n = -frac{1}{12}$ ?










share|cite|improve this question













I'm looking for a simplified analogy to explain why the following formula does not actually mean what it seems to mean:



$sum_{n=1}^infty n = -frac{1}{12}$



I get this question all the time from high school students, probably because it was popularized by Numberphile on Youtube. (See video here and see associated post here)



Since the concept of power series expansion is tough for a lot of high school students to get (let alone the zeta function or analytic continuation), I'd like to give them some accessible way to understand how that equal sign isn't really doing what we normally think it is.



I am partially indebted to the answer of user3002473 here.



Please let me know if my understanding of the problem is correct and if my analogy makes sense and is apt:




  • My understanding of the problem:


The zeta function exists everywhere in the complex plane, but its power series representation is valid only on a portion of the plane.



The equation $sum_{n=1}^infty n = -frac{1}{12}$ is therefore the result of equating the "analytic continuation of the function" at a point outside the power series representation domain with the numerical value of the power series computed at that point.



In other words, each side of the equal sign is a valid representation of the zeta function, but neither representation is actually trying to communicate the numerical value of the function at that point.




  • My analogy:


Consider a non-vertical line in the plane with slope, $2$, and y-intercept, $3$. We can describe this line as a function between two sets of numbers, $f:Xrightarrow Y$



Clearly, we can see that the graph is one visual representation of the function, but we can also represent it as an equation in slope-intercept form: $f(x) = 2x+3$



Now, suppose I wanted to represent this line as a function with $x$ in the denominator. I could do that like this:



$g(x) = frac{2x^2+3x}{x}$



This is clearly a valid representation of my linear function, but it breaks down at the point $x=0$, like so:



$g(0) = frac{2times 0^2+3times 0}{0} = frac{0}{0}$



As we all know, $frac{0}{0}$ is "undefined".



Key point: The original function exists at $x=0$, but the specific representation $g(x)$ fails at that point.



Now, I could say, "We all know that $frac{0}{0}$ is undefined. But for this function, we have enough information to 'define' it."



That is, we know that in the original function, the input $x=0$ is associated uniquely with the output $3$.



So, since $g(x)$ is a representation of our function, we could (strongly waving our hands) say that the output $g(0) = 3$



But then, we've just "proved": $3 = frac{0}{0}$



No, not really. All we did was take equate two different representations, each valid over different domains, and equate them at a point they don't have in common.



Is this a reasonably accurate analogy to the trouble with $sum_{n=1}^infty n = -frac{1}{12}$ ?







convergence summation riemann-zeta popular-math






share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked Nov 30 at 17:17









Cassius12

10611




10611








  • 3




    this video is enough apt for your students? Your argumentation is similar, Im not sure how well this analogy can be, but it seems fine for a first approximation to the expression
    – Masacroso
    Nov 30 at 17:24








  • 1




    "each side of the equal sign is a valid representation of the zeta function, but neither representation is actually trying to communicate the numerical value of the function at that point." I'm no expert, but I think the Riemann zeta function is defined as the analytic continuation of $sum n^{-s}$, and its value at $s=-1$ is exactly $-1/12$. So, the left-hand side $sum n$ is not a value of the Riemann zeta function, but the right-hand side is.
    – Rahul
    Nov 30 at 17:45










  • Trying to evaluate power series expansion outside of it's radius of convergence.
    – mathreadler
    Nov 30 at 18:16














  • 3




    this video is enough apt for your students? Your argumentation is similar, Im not sure how well this analogy can be, but it seems fine for a first approximation to the expression
    – Masacroso
    Nov 30 at 17:24








  • 1




    "each side of the equal sign is a valid representation of the zeta function, but neither representation is actually trying to communicate the numerical value of the function at that point." I'm no expert, but I think the Riemann zeta function is defined as the analytic continuation of $sum n^{-s}$, and its value at $s=-1$ is exactly $-1/12$. So, the left-hand side $sum n$ is not a value of the Riemann zeta function, but the right-hand side is.
    – Rahul
    Nov 30 at 17:45










  • Trying to evaluate power series expansion outside of it's radius of convergence.
    – mathreadler
    Nov 30 at 18:16








3




3




this video is enough apt for your students? Your argumentation is similar, Im not sure how well this analogy can be, but it seems fine for a first approximation to the expression
– Masacroso
Nov 30 at 17:24






this video is enough apt for your students? Your argumentation is similar, Im not sure how well this analogy can be, but it seems fine for a first approximation to the expression
– Masacroso
Nov 30 at 17:24






1




1




"each side of the equal sign is a valid representation of the zeta function, but neither representation is actually trying to communicate the numerical value of the function at that point." I'm no expert, but I think the Riemann zeta function is defined as the analytic continuation of $sum n^{-s}$, and its value at $s=-1$ is exactly $-1/12$. So, the left-hand side $sum n$ is not a value of the Riemann zeta function, but the right-hand side is.
– Rahul
Nov 30 at 17:45




"each side of the equal sign is a valid representation of the zeta function, but neither representation is actually trying to communicate the numerical value of the function at that point." I'm no expert, but I think the Riemann zeta function is defined as the analytic continuation of $sum n^{-s}$, and its value at $s=-1$ is exactly $-1/12$. So, the left-hand side $sum n$ is not a value of the Riemann zeta function, but the right-hand side is.
– Rahul
Nov 30 at 17:45












Trying to evaluate power series expansion outside of it's radius of convergence.
– mathreadler
Nov 30 at 18:16




Trying to evaluate power series expansion outside of it's radius of convergence.
– mathreadler
Nov 30 at 18:16










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















1














You can do all kinds of things like that, by plugging in numbers to a series outside its radius of convergence. You can take the Taylor series for 1/(1-x) & plug -1 in & 'prove' that $$sum_{k=0}^infty (-1)^k=1/2 $$ (!) It all just emphasises the importance of keeping track of convergence, really.



The particular example you cite is a result of the analytic continuation of the Riemann zeta function beyond the domain on which its representation as $$sum_{k=0}^infty {1over{k^z}}$$ is valid. When one exhibits a pathological case such as the one you cite at the beginning of the question, one is just taking a result produced by a new recipe & projecting it back by sheer force onto the old, which no-one ever did say (at least no-one who understands the matter aright) was valid in the domain inwhich the new one has produced its result. And yet there is a continuity between the new & old recipes: they splice together seamlessly.



Convergence & analytic continuation are indeed profound matters ... and yet ultimately all you are doing is counting!






share|cite|improve this answer























  • But that particular result you cite: Srinivasa Ramanujan was rather fond of that particular paradox ... and if it's alright for him then it's alright for me!
    – AmbretteOrrisey
    Nov 30 at 18:04












  • And other wishful stories for grown ups.
    – mathreadler
    Nov 30 at 18:16










  • Yes, keeping track of convergence and also what the symbols "+" and "=" actually mean! The big problem I have with the Numberphile video is that it sort of hand-waves by introducing Cesaro Mean Convergence, so I get a bunch of students who end up confident that you can just shift around numbers any way you like in infinite series and treat the answers like real numbers. They're so amazed by the counter-intuitive result that it becomes more difficult to get them to stop and think about whether it makes sense, what it actually means, and what the subtleties are in getting to that result.
    – Cassius12
    Nov 30 at 18:17










  • @mathreadler -- do you think the story of Ramanujan being particularly fascinated by that result is one of those 'stage-managed' fairytales? Like the guy who had national security round at his house coz he caluculated the strength of a nuclear bomb from photographs of the shock? It might well be - I doubt that Ramanujan particularly cared about a trivium like that.
    – AmbretteOrrisey
    Nov 30 at 18:23












  • @Cassius12 -- I'm not fully following your comment in all its particular detail ... but I get the gist of it, and I could think of similar figures of my own. And what you said about keeping track of the meaning of "+" & "=" ... I can imagine how that need could come-about when you get seriously deep into it; although I have never really gotten quite so deep myself that I have felt called to examine the meaning of those particular symbols! ¶ And I have never seen the Numberphile video.
    – AmbretteOrrisey
    Nov 30 at 18:32













Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});














draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3020353%2fsimple-analogy-to-explain-sum-n-1-infty-n-1-12%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









1














You can do all kinds of things like that, by plugging in numbers to a series outside its radius of convergence. You can take the Taylor series for 1/(1-x) & plug -1 in & 'prove' that $$sum_{k=0}^infty (-1)^k=1/2 $$ (!) It all just emphasises the importance of keeping track of convergence, really.



The particular example you cite is a result of the analytic continuation of the Riemann zeta function beyond the domain on which its representation as $$sum_{k=0}^infty {1over{k^z}}$$ is valid. When one exhibits a pathological case such as the one you cite at the beginning of the question, one is just taking a result produced by a new recipe & projecting it back by sheer force onto the old, which no-one ever did say (at least no-one who understands the matter aright) was valid in the domain inwhich the new one has produced its result. And yet there is a continuity between the new & old recipes: they splice together seamlessly.



Convergence & analytic continuation are indeed profound matters ... and yet ultimately all you are doing is counting!






share|cite|improve this answer























  • But that particular result you cite: Srinivasa Ramanujan was rather fond of that particular paradox ... and if it's alright for him then it's alright for me!
    – AmbretteOrrisey
    Nov 30 at 18:04












  • And other wishful stories for grown ups.
    – mathreadler
    Nov 30 at 18:16










  • Yes, keeping track of convergence and also what the symbols "+" and "=" actually mean! The big problem I have with the Numberphile video is that it sort of hand-waves by introducing Cesaro Mean Convergence, so I get a bunch of students who end up confident that you can just shift around numbers any way you like in infinite series and treat the answers like real numbers. They're so amazed by the counter-intuitive result that it becomes more difficult to get them to stop and think about whether it makes sense, what it actually means, and what the subtleties are in getting to that result.
    – Cassius12
    Nov 30 at 18:17










  • @mathreadler -- do you think the story of Ramanujan being particularly fascinated by that result is one of those 'stage-managed' fairytales? Like the guy who had national security round at his house coz he caluculated the strength of a nuclear bomb from photographs of the shock? It might well be - I doubt that Ramanujan particularly cared about a trivium like that.
    – AmbretteOrrisey
    Nov 30 at 18:23












  • @Cassius12 -- I'm not fully following your comment in all its particular detail ... but I get the gist of it, and I could think of similar figures of my own. And what you said about keeping track of the meaning of "+" & "=" ... I can imagine how that need could come-about when you get seriously deep into it; although I have never really gotten quite so deep myself that I have felt called to examine the meaning of those particular symbols! ¶ And I have never seen the Numberphile video.
    – AmbretteOrrisey
    Nov 30 at 18:32


















1














You can do all kinds of things like that, by plugging in numbers to a series outside its radius of convergence. You can take the Taylor series for 1/(1-x) & plug -1 in & 'prove' that $$sum_{k=0}^infty (-1)^k=1/2 $$ (!) It all just emphasises the importance of keeping track of convergence, really.



The particular example you cite is a result of the analytic continuation of the Riemann zeta function beyond the domain on which its representation as $$sum_{k=0}^infty {1over{k^z}}$$ is valid. When one exhibits a pathological case such as the one you cite at the beginning of the question, one is just taking a result produced by a new recipe & projecting it back by sheer force onto the old, which no-one ever did say (at least no-one who understands the matter aright) was valid in the domain inwhich the new one has produced its result. And yet there is a continuity between the new & old recipes: they splice together seamlessly.



Convergence & analytic continuation are indeed profound matters ... and yet ultimately all you are doing is counting!






share|cite|improve this answer























  • But that particular result you cite: Srinivasa Ramanujan was rather fond of that particular paradox ... and if it's alright for him then it's alright for me!
    – AmbretteOrrisey
    Nov 30 at 18:04












  • And other wishful stories for grown ups.
    – mathreadler
    Nov 30 at 18:16










  • Yes, keeping track of convergence and also what the symbols "+" and "=" actually mean! The big problem I have with the Numberphile video is that it sort of hand-waves by introducing Cesaro Mean Convergence, so I get a bunch of students who end up confident that you can just shift around numbers any way you like in infinite series and treat the answers like real numbers. They're so amazed by the counter-intuitive result that it becomes more difficult to get them to stop and think about whether it makes sense, what it actually means, and what the subtleties are in getting to that result.
    – Cassius12
    Nov 30 at 18:17










  • @mathreadler -- do you think the story of Ramanujan being particularly fascinated by that result is one of those 'stage-managed' fairytales? Like the guy who had national security round at his house coz he caluculated the strength of a nuclear bomb from photographs of the shock? It might well be - I doubt that Ramanujan particularly cared about a trivium like that.
    – AmbretteOrrisey
    Nov 30 at 18:23












  • @Cassius12 -- I'm not fully following your comment in all its particular detail ... but I get the gist of it, and I could think of similar figures of my own. And what you said about keeping track of the meaning of "+" & "=" ... I can imagine how that need could come-about when you get seriously deep into it; although I have never really gotten quite so deep myself that I have felt called to examine the meaning of those particular symbols! ¶ And I have never seen the Numberphile video.
    – AmbretteOrrisey
    Nov 30 at 18:32
















1












1








1






You can do all kinds of things like that, by plugging in numbers to a series outside its radius of convergence. You can take the Taylor series for 1/(1-x) & plug -1 in & 'prove' that $$sum_{k=0}^infty (-1)^k=1/2 $$ (!) It all just emphasises the importance of keeping track of convergence, really.



The particular example you cite is a result of the analytic continuation of the Riemann zeta function beyond the domain on which its representation as $$sum_{k=0}^infty {1over{k^z}}$$ is valid. When one exhibits a pathological case such as the one you cite at the beginning of the question, one is just taking a result produced by a new recipe & projecting it back by sheer force onto the old, which no-one ever did say (at least no-one who understands the matter aright) was valid in the domain inwhich the new one has produced its result. And yet there is a continuity between the new & old recipes: they splice together seamlessly.



Convergence & analytic continuation are indeed profound matters ... and yet ultimately all you are doing is counting!






share|cite|improve this answer














You can do all kinds of things like that, by plugging in numbers to a series outside its radius of convergence. You can take the Taylor series for 1/(1-x) & plug -1 in & 'prove' that $$sum_{k=0}^infty (-1)^k=1/2 $$ (!) It all just emphasises the importance of keeping track of convergence, really.



The particular example you cite is a result of the analytic continuation of the Riemann zeta function beyond the domain on which its representation as $$sum_{k=0}^infty {1over{k^z}}$$ is valid. When one exhibits a pathological case such as the one you cite at the beginning of the question, one is just taking a result produced by a new recipe & projecting it back by sheer force onto the old, which no-one ever did say (at least no-one who understands the matter aright) was valid in the domain inwhich the new one has produced its result. And yet there is a continuity between the new & old recipes: they splice together seamlessly.



Convergence & analytic continuation are indeed profound matters ... and yet ultimately all you are doing is counting!







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Nov 30 at 18:01

























answered Nov 30 at 17:37









AmbretteOrrisey

56710




56710












  • But that particular result you cite: Srinivasa Ramanujan was rather fond of that particular paradox ... and if it's alright for him then it's alright for me!
    – AmbretteOrrisey
    Nov 30 at 18:04












  • And other wishful stories for grown ups.
    – mathreadler
    Nov 30 at 18:16










  • Yes, keeping track of convergence and also what the symbols "+" and "=" actually mean! The big problem I have with the Numberphile video is that it sort of hand-waves by introducing Cesaro Mean Convergence, so I get a bunch of students who end up confident that you can just shift around numbers any way you like in infinite series and treat the answers like real numbers. They're so amazed by the counter-intuitive result that it becomes more difficult to get them to stop and think about whether it makes sense, what it actually means, and what the subtleties are in getting to that result.
    – Cassius12
    Nov 30 at 18:17










  • @mathreadler -- do you think the story of Ramanujan being particularly fascinated by that result is one of those 'stage-managed' fairytales? Like the guy who had national security round at his house coz he caluculated the strength of a nuclear bomb from photographs of the shock? It might well be - I doubt that Ramanujan particularly cared about a trivium like that.
    – AmbretteOrrisey
    Nov 30 at 18:23












  • @Cassius12 -- I'm not fully following your comment in all its particular detail ... but I get the gist of it, and I could think of similar figures of my own. And what you said about keeping track of the meaning of "+" & "=" ... I can imagine how that need could come-about when you get seriously deep into it; although I have never really gotten quite so deep myself that I have felt called to examine the meaning of those particular symbols! ¶ And I have never seen the Numberphile video.
    – AmbretteOrrisey
    Nov 30 at 18:32




















  • But that particular result you cite: Srinivasa Ramanujan was rather fond of that particular paradox ... and if it's alright for him then it's alright for me!
    – AmbretteOrrisey
    Nov 30 at 18:04












  • And other wishful stories for grown ups.
    – mathreadler
    Nov 30 at 18:16










  • Yes, keeping track of convergence and also what the symbols "+" and "=" actually mean! The big problem I have with the Numberphile video is that it sort of hand-waves by introducing Cesaro Mean Convergence, so I get a bunch of students who end up confident that you can just shift around numbers any way you like in infinite series and treat the answers like real numbers. They're so amazed by the counter-intuitive result that it becomes more difficult to get them to stop and think about whether it makes sense, what it actually means, and what the subtleties are in getting to that result.
    – Cassius12
    Nov 30 at 18:17










  • @mathreadler -- do you think the story of Ramanujan being particularly fascinated by that result is one of those 'stage-managed' fairytales? Like the guy who had national security round at his house coz he caluculated the strength of a nuclear bomb from photographs of the shock? It might well be - I doubt that Ramanujan particularly cared about a trivium like that.
    – AmbretteOrrisey
    Nov 30 at 18:23












  • @Cassius12 -- I'm not fully following your comment in all its particular detail ... but I get the gist of it, and I could think of similar figures of my own. And what you said about keeping track of the meaning of "+" & "=" ... I can imagine how that need could come-about when you get seriously deep into it; although I have never really gotten quite so deep myself that I have felt called to examine the meaning of those particular symbols! ¶ And I have never seen the Numberphile video.
    – AmbretteOrrisey
    Nov 30 at 18:32


















But that particular result you cite: Srinivasa Ramanujan was rather fond of that particular paradox ... and if it's alright for him then it's alright for me!
– AmbretteOrrisey
Nov 30 at 18:04






But that particular result you cite: Srinivasa Ramanujan was rather fond of that particular paradox ... and if it's alright for him then it's alright for me!
– AmbretteOrrisey
Nov 30 at 18:04














And other wishful stories for grown ups.
– mathreadler
Nov 30 at 18:16




And other wishful stories for grown ups.
– mathreadler
Nov 30 at 18:16












Yes, keeping track of convergence and also what the symbols "+" and "=" actually mean! The big problem I have with the Numberphile video is that it sort of hand-waves by introducing Cesaro Mean Convergence, so I get a bunch of students who end up confident that you can just shift around numbers any way you like in infinite series and treat the answers like real numbers. They're so amazed by the counter-intuitive result that it becomes more difficult to get them to stop and think about whether it makes sense, what it actually means, and what the subtleties are in getting to that result.
– Cassius12
Nov 30 at 18:17




Yes, keeping track of convergence and also what the symbols "+" and "=" actually mean! The big problem I have with the Numberphile video is that it sort of hand-waves by introducing Cesaro Mean Convergence, so I get a bunch of students who end up confident that you can just shift around numbers any way you like in infinite series and treat the answers like real numbers. They're so amazed by the counter-intuitive result that it becomes more difficult to get them to stop and think about whether it makes sense, what it actually means, and what the subtleties are in getting to that result.
– Cassius12
Nov 30 at 18:17












@mathreadler -- do you think the story of Ramanujan being particularly fascinated by that result is one of those 'stage-managed' fairytales? Like the guy who had national security round at his house coz he caluculated the strength of a nuclear bomb from photographs of the shock? It might well be - I doubt that Ramanujan particularly cared about a trivium like that.
– AmbretteOrrisey
Nov 30 at 18:23






@mathreadler -- do you think the story of Ramanujan being particularly fascinated by that result is one of those 'stage-managed' fairytales? Like the guy who had national security round at his house coz he caluculated the strength of a nuclear bomb from photographs of the shock? It might well be - I doubt that Ramanujan particularly cared about a trivium like that.
– AmbretteOrrisey
Nov 30 at 18:23














@Cassius12 -- I'm not fully following your comment in all its particular detail ... but I get the gist of it, and I could think of similar figures of my own. And what you said about keeping track of the meaning of "+" & "=" ... I can imagine how that need could come-about when you get seriously deep into it; although I have never really gotten quite so deep myself that I have felt called to examine the meaning of those particular symbols! ¶ And I have never seen the Numberphile video.
– AmbretteOrrisey
Nov 30 at 18:32






@Cassius12 -- I'm not fully following your comment in all its particular detail ... but I get the gist of it, and I could think of similar figures of my own. And what you said about keeping track of the meaning of "+" & "=" ... I can imagine how that need could come-about when you get seriously deep into it; although I have never really gotten quite so deep myself that I have felt called to examine the meaning of those particular symbols! ¶ And I have never seen the Numberphile video.
– AmbretteOrrisey
Nov 30 at 18:32




















draft saved

draft discarded




















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3020353%2fsimple-analogy-to-explain-sum-n-1-infty-n-1-12%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Berounka

Sphinx de Gizeh

Different font size/position of beamer's navigation symbols template's content depending on regular/plain...