Does there exist a continuous 2-to-1 function from the sphere to itself?
$begingroup$
I am interested in the following question:
Does there exist a continuous function $f:S^2to S^2$ such that, for any $pin S^2$, $|f^{-1}({p})|=2$?
I suspect the answer is no, but I don't know how to prove it. All I know right now is that $f$ cannot be a covering map.
For if $f$ is a covering map, take any $pin S^2$. Then $f$ restricts to a covering map from $S^2backslash f^{-1}(p)$ to $S^2backslash {p}$. However, the fundamental group of $S^2backslash f^{-1}(p)$ is $mathbb{Z}$ and the fundamental group of $S^2backslash {p}$ is trivial. That $f$ is a covering then gives that there is an injective homomorphism from $mathbb{Z}$ to the trivial group, a contradiction. Thus $f$ cannot be a covering map.
That's all I've got so far. Any more progress is greatly appreciated.
Update (Dec 21, 2018): I've posted this question on MO
general-topology algebraic-topology
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I am interested in the following question:
Does there exist a continuous function $f:S^2to S^2$ such that, for any $pin S^2$, $|f^{-1}({p})|=2$?
I suspect the answer is no, but I don't know how to prove it. All I know right now is that $f$ cannot be a covering map.
For if $f$ is a covering map, take any $pin S^2$. Then $f$ restricts to a covering map from $S^2backslash f^{-1}(p)$ to $S^2backslash {p}$. However, the fundamental group of $S^2backslash f^{-1}(p)$ is $mathbb{Z}$ and the fundamental group of $S^2backslash {p}$ is trivial. That $f$ is a covering then gives that there is an injective homomorphism from $mathbb{Z}$ to the trivial group, a contradiction. Thus $f$ cannot be a covering map.
That's all I've got so far. Any more progress is greatly appreciated.
Update (Dec 21, 2018): I've posted this question on MO
general-topology algebraic-topology
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I don't know much topology, but here's an idea: if you take $f^{-1}$ to be continuous as well, then $f$ would be a homeomorphism from some connected subset of the sphere to itself. However, a sphere partitions $3$-space into two parts, and no connected subset of a sphere partitions $3$-space into two parts (because, non-rigorously speaking, it must have a hole).
$endgroup$
– Frpzzd
Dec 18 '18 at 0:00
1
$begingroup$
We know that $f$ cannot be a covering map. This leaves the question whether your function $f$ must be a covering map. The answers by Florentin MB and SmileyCraft are have gaps. Florentin MB cannot show that $f$ is locally injective and SmileyCraft assumes that $f$ is open. The arguments used in these answers cannot be sufficient because they are of a very general nature and do not invoke special features of $S^2$. This is shown by yoyo's comment where you can find a continuous function $f : S^1 to S^1$ which is not a covering although preimages of points contain two points
$endgroup$
– Paul Frost
Dec 18 '18 at 14:11
1
$begingroup$
Related: mathoverflow.net/questions/17707/…
$endgroup$
– Dap
Dec 20 '18 at 14:19
1
$begingroup$
See my answer at MathOverflow.
$endgroup$
– GH from MO
Dec 23 '18 at 2:17
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I am interested in the following question:
Does there exist a continuous function $f:S^2to S^2$ such that, for any $pin S^2$, $|f^{-1}({p})|=2$?
I suspect the answer is no, but I don't know how to prove it. All I know right now is that $f$ cannot be a covering map.
For if $f$ is a covering map, take any $pin S^2$. Then $f$ restricts to a covering map from $S^2backslash f^{-1}(p)$ to $S^2backslash {p}$. However, the fundamental group of $S^2backslash f^{-1}(p)$ is $mathbb{Z}$ and the fundamental group of $S^2backslash {p}$ is trivial. That $f$ is a covering then gives that there is an injective homomorphism from $mathbb{Z}$ to the trivial group, a contradiction. Thus $f$ cannot be a covering map.
That's all I've got so far. Any more progress is greatly appreciated.
Update (Dec 21, 2018): I've posted this question on MO
general-topology algebraic-topology
$endgroup$
I am interested in the following question:
Does there exist a continuous function $f:S^2to S^2$ such that, for any $pin S^2$, $|f^{-1}({p})|=2$?
I suspect the answer is no, but I don't know how to prove it. All I know right now is that $f$ cannot be a covering map.
For if $f$ is a covering map, take any $pin S^2$. Then $f$ restricts to a covering map from $S^2backslash f^{-1}(p)$ to $S^2backslash {p}$. However, the fundamental group of $S^2backslash f^{-1}(p)$ is $mathbb{Z}$ and the fundamental group of $S^2backslash {p}$ is trivial. That $f$ is a covering then gives that there is an injective homomorphism from $mathbb{Z}$ to the trivial group, a contradiction. Thus $f$ cannot be a covering map.
That's all I've got so far. Any more progress is greatly appreciated.
Update (Dec 21, 2018): I've posted this question on MO
general-topology algebraic-topology
general-topology algebraic-topology
edited Dec 22 '18 at 7:51
Nathaniel B
asked Dec 10 '18 at 7:45
Nathaniel BNathaniel B
851616
851616
$begingroup$
I don't know much topology, but here's an idea: if you take $f^{-1}$ to be continuous as well, then $f$ would be a homeomorphism from some connected subset of the sphere to itself. However, a sphere partitions $3$-space into two parts, and no connected subset of a sphere partitions $3$-space into two parts (because, non-rigorously speaking, it must have a hole).
$endgroup$
– Frpzzd
Dec 18 '18 at 0:00
1
$begingroup$
We know that $f$ cannot be a covering map. This leaves the question whether your function $f$ must be a covering map. The answers by Florentin MB and SmileyCraft are have gaps. Florentin MB cannot show that $f$ is locally injective and SmileyCraft assumes that $f$ is open. The arguments used in these answers cannot be sufficient because they are of a very general nature and do not invoke special features of $S^2$. This is shown by yoyo's comment where you can find a continuous function $f : S^1 to S^1$ which is not a covering although preimages of points contain two points
$endgroup$
– Paul Frost
Dec 18 '18 at 14:11
1
$begingroup$
Related: mathoverflow.net/questions/17707/…
$endgroup$
– Dap
Dec 20 '18 at 14:19
1
$begingroup$
See my answer at MathOverflow.
$endgroup$
– GH from MO
Dec 23 '18 at 2:17
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I don't know much topology, but here's an idea: if you take $f^{-1}$ to be continuous as well, then $f$ would be a homeomorphism from some connected subset of the sphere to itself. However, a sphere partitions $3$-space into two parts, and no connected subset of a sphere partitions $3$-space into two parts (because, non-rigorously speaking, it must have a hole).
$endgroup$
– Frpzzd
Dec 18 '18 at 0:00
1
$begingroup$
We know that $f$ cannot be a covering map. This leaves the question whether your function $f$ must be a covering map. The answers by Florentin MB and SmileyCraft are have gaps. Florentin MB cannot show that $f$ is locally injective and SmileyCraft assumes that $f$ is open. The arguments used in these answers cannot be sufficient because they are of a very general nature and do not invoke special features of $S^2$. This is shown by yoyo's comment where you can find a continuous function $f : S^1 to S^1$ which is not a covering although preimages of points contain two points
$endgroup$
– Paul Frost
Dec 18 '18 at 14:11
1
$begingroup$
Related: mathoverflow.net/questions/17707/…
$endgroup$
– Dap
Dec 20 '18 at 14:19
1
$begingroup$
See my answer at MathOverflow.
$endgroup$
– GH from MO
Dec 23 '18 at 2:17
$begingroup$
I don't know much topology, but here's an idea: if you take $f^{-1}$ to be continuous as well, then $f$ would be a homeomorphism from some connected subset of the sphere to itself. However, a sphere partitions $3$-space into two parts, and no connected subset of a sphere partitions $3$-space into two parts (because, non-rigorously speaking, it must have a hole).
$endgroup$
– Frpzzd
Dec 18 '18 at 0:00
$begingroup$
I don't know much topology, but here's an idea: if you take $f^{-1}$ to be continuous as well, then $f$ would be a homeomorphism from some connected subset of the sphere to itself. However, a sphere partitions $3$-space into two parts, and no connected subset of a sphere partitions $3$-space into two parts (because, non-rigorously speaking, it must have a hole).
$endgroup$
– Frpzzd
Dec 18 '18 at 0:00
1
1
$begingroup$
We know that $f$ cannot be a covering map. This leaves the question whether your function $f$ must be a covering map. The answers by Florentin MB and SmileyCraft are have gaps. Florentin MB cannot show that $f$ is locally injective and SmileyCraft assumes that $f$ is open. The arguments used in these answers cannot be sufficient because they are of a very general nature and do not invoke special features of $S^2$. This is shown by yoyo's comment where you can find a continuous function $f : S^1 to S^1$ which is not a covering although preimages of points contain two points
$endgroup$
– Paul Frost
Dec 18 '18 at 14:11
$begingroup$
We know that $f$ cannot be a covering map. This leaves the question whether your function $f$ must be a covering map. The answers by Florentin MB and SmileyCraft are have gaps. Florentin MB cannot show that $f$ is locally injective and SmileyCraft assumes that $f$ is open. The arguments used in these answers cannot be sufficient because they are of a very general nature and do not invoke special features of $S^2$. This is shown by yoyo's comment where you can find a continuous function $f : S^1 to S^1$ which is not a covering although preimages of points contain two points
$endgroup$
– Paul Frost
Dec 18 '18 at 14:11
1
1
$begingroup$
Related: mathoverflow.net/questions/17707/…
$endgroup$
– Dap
Dec 20 '18 at 14:19
$begingroup$
Related: mathoverflow.net/questions/17707/…
$endgroup$
– Dap
Dec 20 '18 at 14:19
1
1
$begingroup$
See my answer at MathOverflow.
$endgroup$
– GH from MO
Dec 23 '18 at 2:17
$begingroup$
See my answer at MathOverflow.
$endgroup$
– GH from MO
Dec 23 '18 at 2:17
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
EDIT: the argument is incomplete. As pointed in the comments by yoyo, the separation of the pre-images is not guaranteed by the compactness.
There is no such map.
For is there is, I prove below that it has to be a covering map and you proved that it is not possible
(or simply remark that from the fact that $S^2$ is simply connected, it admits no non-trivial covering).
Let's assume $f$ satisfies your hypothesis.
By compactness of $S^2$, there exists a $varepsilon>0$
such that for all $p in S^2$, for all $x neq y in f^{-1}(p)$
we have $d(x,y) ge 2 varepsilon$ (where $d$ is any compatible metric on the sphere).
Consequently, for any $x in S^2$, if $U$ is the closed ball centered at $x$ and radius $varepsilon$ then the restriction of $f$ to $U$ is injective, and by compactness, an homeomorphism onto its image.
We've shown that $f$ is a local homeomorphism, and by hypothesis it is surjective.
As its domain is compact and its range connected, it is a covering.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Could you please explain how compactness lead us to the fact $d(x,y) ge 2 varepsilon$?
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 13:47
$begingroup$
@yoyo In fact, a uniform $varepsilon$ is not needed (but it is true). I edited the answer.
$endgroup$
– Florentin MB
Dec 11 '18 at 14:14
$begingroup$
Sorry that I still can't understand how you deduced the fact that the restriction of $f$ to $U$ is injective.
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 14:43
$begingroup$
@yoyo I believe the idea is that the diameter of the preimages of $f$ is a positive continuous function on $S^2$, and since that's a compact domain, it is bounded below by some uniform positive constant. That is the chosen $epsilon$
$endgroup$
– Balarka Sen
Dec 11 '18 at 14:53
3
$begingroup$
EX:$g:S^1to S^1$, $g(theta)=2theta$ if $0 le theta le pi$ and $g(theta)=-2 (pi + theta)$ if $-pi le theta le 0$, which satisfies $|g^{-1}({theta})|=2$ for all $theta in S^1$ but $S^1$ is compact and the $inf$ of the diameters of the preimages of $g$ is $0$.
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 15:26
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
If I understand correctly, Florentin MB's answer will be complete if we can prove that $f$ is locally injective. Feel free to tell me if I'm wrong here, but I think we can at least show that $f$ is locally injective if $f$ is open. It seems to me that $f$ should be open, but I don't know how to prove that.
Let $xin S^2$ and $f(x)=f(y)$ for $xneq y$. Then let $U$ and $V$ be disjoint opens such that $xin U$ and $yin V$. If $f$ is open, then $f(U)$ and $f(V)$ are open, so $W:=f(U)cap f(V)$ is open. Now for every $win W$ there exist $uin U$ and $vin V$ such that $f(u)=f(v)=w$. Because $U$ and $V$ are disjoint, we find $uneq v$, so because $|f^{-1}({w})|=2$, we find $f^{-1}({w})={u,v}$. Hence, we find $f^{-1}(W)subset Ucup V$. Because $f$ is continuous, $f^{-1}(W)$ is open, so $N:=f^{-1}(W)cap U$ is open. Notice that $xin N$, so $N$ is a neighborhood of $x$. Finally, $f$ is injective in $N$, because for all $nin N$ we have $f(n)in W$. This gives $f^{-1}({f(n)})={n,v}$ for some $vin V$, and $U$ and $V$ are disjoint, so $vnotin U$.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
If it should be possible to prove that $f$ is open, then it must be based on special features of $S^2$. See yoyo's example of a function $f : S^1 to S^1$ which is not open.
$endgroup$
– Paul Frost
Dec 18 '18 at 14:18
$begingroup$
Right, so its probably not making things any easier...
$endgroup$
– SmileyCraft
Dec 18 '18 at 16:40
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3033601%2fdoes-there-exist-a-continuous-2-to-1-function-from-the-sphere-to-itself%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
EDIT: the argument is incomplete. As pointed in the comments by yoyo, the separation of the pre-images is not guaranteed by the compactness.
There is no such map.
For is there is, I prove below that it has to be a covering map and you proved that it is not possible
(or simply remark that from the fact that $S^2$ is simply connected, it admits no non-trivial covering).
Let's assume $f$ satisfies your hypothesis.
By compactness of $S^2$, there exists a $varepsilon>0$
such that for all $p in S^2$, for all $x neq y in f^{-1}(p)$
we have $d(x,y) ge 2 varepsilon$ (where $d$ is any compatible metric on the sphere).
Consequently, for any $x in S^2$, if $U$ is the closed ball centered at $x$ and radius $varepsilon$ then the restriction of $f$ to $U$ is injective, and by compactness, an homeomorphism onto its image.
We've shown that $f$ is a local homeomorphism, and by hypothesis it is surjective.
As its domain is compact and its range connected, it is a covering.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Could you please explain how compactness lead us to the fact $d(x,y) ge 2 varepsilon$?
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 13:47
$begingroup$
@yoyo In fact, a uniform $varepsilon$ is not needed (but it is true). I edited the answer.
$endgroup$
– Florentin MB
Dec 11 '18 at 14:14
$begingroup$
Sorry that I still can't understand how you deduced the fact that the restriction of $f$ to $U$ is injective.
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 14:43
$begingroup$
@yoyo I believe the idea is that the diameter of the preimages of $f$ is a positive continuous function on $S^2$, and since that's a compact domain, it is bounded below by some uniform positive constant. That is the chosen $epsilon$
$endgroup$
– Balarka Sen
Dec 11 '18 at 14:53
3
$begingroup$
EX:$g:S^1to S^1$, $g(theta)=2theta$ if $0 le theta le pi$ and $g(theta)=-2 (pi + theta)$ if $-pi le theta le 0$, which satisfies $|g^{-1}({theta})|=2$ for all $theta in S^1$ but $S^1$ is compact and the $inf$ of the diameters of the preimages of $g$ is $0$.
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 15:26
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
EDIT: the argument is incomplete. As pointed in the comments by yoyo, the separation of the pre-images is not guaranteed by the compactness.
There is no such map.
For is there is, I prove below that it has to be a covering map and you proved that it is not possible
(or simply remark that from the fact that $S^2$ is simply connected, it admits no non-trivial covering).
Let's assume $f$ satisfies your hypothesis.
By compactness of $S^2$, there exists a $varepsilon>0$
such that for all $p in S^2$, for all $x neq y in f^{-1}(p)$
we have $d(x,y) ge 2 varepsilon$ (where $d$ is any compatible metric on the sphere).
Consequently, for any $x in S^2$, if $U$ is the closed ball centered at $x$ and radius $varepsilon$ then the restriction of $f$ to $U$ is injective, and by compactness, an homeomorphism onto its image.
We've shown that $f$ is a local homeomorphism, and by hypothesis it is surjective.
As its domain is compact and its range connected, it is a covering.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Could you please explain how compactness lead us to the fact $d(x,y) ge 2 varepsilon$?
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 13:47
$begingroup$
@yoyo In fact, a uniform $varepsilon$ is not needed (but it is true). I edited the answer.
$endgroup$
– Florentin MB
Dec 11 '18 at 14:14
$begingroup$
Sorry that I still can't understand how you deduced the fact that the restriction of $f$ to $U$ is injective.
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 14:43
$begingroup$
@yoyo I believe the idea is that the diameter of the preimages of $f$ is a positive continuous function on $S^2$, and since that's a compact domain, it is bounded below by some uniform positive constant. That is the chosen $epsilon$
$endgroup$
– Balarka Sen
Dec 11 '18 at 14:53
3
$begingroup$
EX:$g:S^1to S^1$, $g(theta)=2theta$ if $0 le theta le pi$ and $g(theta)=-2 (pi + theta)$ if $-pi le theta le 0$, which satisfies $|g^{-1}({theta})|=2$ for all $theta in S^1$ but $S^1$ is compact and the $inf$ of the diameters of the preimages of $g$ is $0$.
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 15:26
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
EDIT: the argument is incomplete. As pointed in the comments by yoyo, the separation of the pre-images is not guaranteed by the compactness.
There is no such map.
For is there is, I prove below that it has to be a covering map and you proved that it is not possible
(or simply remark that from the fact that $S^2$ is simply connected, it admits no non-trivial covering).
Let's assume $f$ satisfies your hypothesis.
By compactness of $S^2$, there exists a $varepsilon>0$
such that for all $p in S^2$, for all $x neq y in f^{-1}(p)$
we have $d(x,y) ge 2 varepsilon$ (where $d$ is any compatible metric on the sphere).
Consequently, for any $x in S^2$, if $U$ is the closed ball centered at $x$ and radius $varepsilon$ then the restriction of $f$ to $U$ is injective, and by compactness, an homeomorphism onto its image.
We've shown that $f$ is a local homeomorphism, and by hypothesis it is surjective.
As its domain is compact and its range connected, it is a covering.
$endgroup$
EDIT: the argument is incomplete. As pointed in the comments by yoyo, the separation of the pre-images is not guaranteed by the compactness.
There is no such map.
For is there is, I prove below that it has to be a covering map and you proved that it is not possible
(or simply remark that from the fact that $S^2$ is simply connected, it admits no non-trivial covering).
Let's assume $f$ satisfies your hypothesis.
By compactness of $S^2$, there exists a $varepsilon>0$
such that for all $p in S^2$, for all $x neq y in f^{-1}(p)$
we have $d(x,y) ge 2 varepsilon$ (where $d$ is any compatible metric on the sphere).
Consequently, for any $x in S^2$, if $U$ is the closed ball centered at $x$ and radius $varepsilon$ then the restriction of $f$ to $U$ is injective, and by compactness, an homeomorphism onto its image.
We've shown that $f$ is a local homeomorphism, and by hypothesis it is surjective.
As its domain is compact and its range connected, it is a covering.
edited Dec 11 '18 at 15:46
answered Dec 10 '18 at 10:06
Florentin MBFlorentin MB
13715
13715
$begingroup$
Could you please explain how compactness lead us to the fact $d(x,y) ge 2 varepsilon$?
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 13:47
$begingroup$
@yoyo In fact, a uniform $varepsilon$ is not needed (but it is true). I edited the answer.
$endgroup$
– Florentin MB
Dec 11 '18 at 14:14
$begingroup$
Sorry that I still can't understand how you deduced the fact that the restriction of $f$ to $U$ is injective.
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 14:43
$begingroup$
@yoyo I believe the idea is that the diameter of the preimages of $f$ is a positive continuous function on $S^2$, and since that's a compact domain, it is bounded below by some uniform positive constant. That is the chosen $epsilon$
$endgroup$
– Balarka Sen
Dec 11 '18 at 14:53
3
$begingroup$
EX:$g:S^1to S^1$, $g(theta)=2theta$ if $0 le theta le pi$ and $g(theta)=-2 (pi + theta)$ if $-pi le theta le 0$, which satisfies $|g^{-1}({theta})|=2$ for all $theta in S^1$ but $S^1$ is compact and the $inf$ of the diameters of the preimages of $g$ is $0$.
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 15:26
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Could you please explain how compactness lead us to the fact $d(x,y) ge 2 varepsilon$?
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 13:47
$begingroup$
@yoyo In fact, a uniform $varepsilon$ is not needed (but it is true). I edited the answer.
$endgroup$
– Florentin MB
Dec 11 '18 at 14:14
$begingroup$
Sorry that I still can't understand how you deduced the fact that the restriction of $f$ to $U$ is injective.
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 14:43
$begingroup$
@yoyo I believe the idea is that the diameter of the preimages of $f$ is a positive continuous function on $S^2$, and since that's a compact domain, it is bounded below by some uniform positive constant. That is the chosen $epsilon$
$endgroup$
– Balarka Sen
Dec 11 '18 at 14:53
3
$begingroup$
EX:$g:S^1to S^1$, $g(theta)=2theta$ if $0 le theta le pi$ and $g(theta)=-2 (pi + theta)$ if $-pi le theta le 0$, which satisfies $|g^{-1}({theta})|=2$ for all $theta in S^1$ but $S^1$ is compact and the $inf$ of the diameters of the preimages of $g$ is $0$.
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 15:26
$begingroup$
Could you please explain how compactness lead us to the fact $d(x,y) ge 2 varepsilon$?
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 13:47
$begingroup$
Could you please explain how compactness lead us to the fact $d(x,y) ge 2 varepsilon$?
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 13:47
$begingroup$
@yoyo In fact, a uniform $varepsilon$ is not needed (but it is true). I edited the answer.
$endgroup$
– Florentin MB
Dec 11 '18 at 14:14
$begingroup$
@yoyo In fact, a uniform $varepsilon$ is not needed (but it is true). I edited the answer.
$endgroup$
– Florentin MB
Dec 11 '18 at 14:14
$begingroup$
Sorry that I still can't understand how you deduced the fact that the restriction of $f$ to $U$ is injective.
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 14:43
$begingroup$
Sorry that I still can't understand how you deduced the fact that the restriction of $f$ to $U$ is injective.
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 14:43
$begingroup$
@yoyo I believe the idea is that the diameter of the preimages of $f$ is a positive continuous function on $S^2$, and since that's a compact domain, it is bounded below by some uniform positive constant. That is the chosen $epsilon$
$endgroup$
– Balarka Sen
Dec 11 '18 at 14:53
$begingroup$
@yoyo I believe the idea is that the diameter of the preimages of $f$ is a positive continuous function on $S^2$, and since that's a compact domain, it is bounded below by some uniform positive constant. That is the chosen $epsilon$
$endgroup$
– Balarka Sen
Dec 11 '18 at 14:53
3
3
$begingroup$
EX:$g:S^1to S^1$, $g(theta)=2theta$ if $0 le theta le pi$ and $g(theta)=-2 (pi + theta)$ if $-pi le theta le 0$, which satisfies $|g^{-1}({theta})|=2$ for all $theta in S^1$ but $S^1$ is compact and the $inf$ of the diameters of the preimages of $g$ is $0$.
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 15:26
$begingroup$
EX:$g:S^1to S^1$, $g(theta)=2theta$ if $0 le theta le pi$ and $g(theta)=-2 (pi + theta)$ if $-pi le theta le 0$, which satisfies $|g^{-1}({theta})|=2$ for all $theta in S^1$ but $S^1$ is compact and the $inf$ of the diameters of the preimages of $g$ is $0$.
$endgroup$
– yoyo
Dec 11 '18 at 15:26
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
If I understand correctly, Florentin MB's answer will be complete if we can prove that $f$ is locally injective. Feel free to tell me if I'm wrong here, but I think we can at least show that $f$ is locally injective if $f$ is open. It seems to me that $f$ should be open, but I don't know how to prove that.
Let $xin S^2$ and $f(x)=f(y)$ for $xneq y$. Then let $U$ and $V$ be disjoint opens such that $xin U$ and $yin V$. If $f$ is open, then $f(U)$ and $f(V)$ are open, so $W:=f(U)cap f(V)$ is open. Now for every $win W$ there exist $uin U$ and $vin V$ such that $f(u)=f(v)=w$. Because $U$ and $V$ are disjoint, we find $uneq v$, so because $|f^{-1}({w})|=2$, we find $f^{-1}({w})={u,v}$. Hence, we find $f^{-1}(W)subset Ucup V$. Because $f$ is continuous, $f^{-1}(W)$ is open, so $N:=f^{-1}(W)cap U$ is open. Notice that $xin N$, so $N$ is a neighborhood of $x$. Finally, $f$ is injective in $N$, because for all $nin N$ we have $f(n)in W$. This gives $f^{-1}({f(n)})={n,v}$ for some $vin V$, and $U$ and $V$ are disjoint, so $vnotin U$.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
If it should be possible to prove that $f$ is open, then it must be based on special features of $S^2$. See yoyo's example of a function $f : S^1 to S^1$ which is not open.
$endgroup$
– Paul Frost
Dec 18 '18 at 14:18
$begingroup$
Right, so its probably not making things any easier...
$endgroup$
– SmileyCraft
Dec 18 '18 at 16:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If I understand correctly, Florentin MB's answer will be complete if we can prove that $f$ is locally injective. Feel free to tell me if I'm wrong here, but I think we can at least show that $f$ is locally injective if $f$ is open. It seems to me that $f$ should be open, but I don't know how to prove that.
Let $xin S^2$ and $f(x)=f(y)$ for $xneq y$. Then let $U$ and $V$ be disjoint opens such that $xin U$ and $yin V$. If $f$ is open, then $f(U)$ and $f(V)$ are open, so $W:=f(U)cap f(V)$ is open. Now for every $win W$ there exist $uin U$ and $vin V$ such that $f(u)=f(v)=w$. Because $U$ and $V$ are disjoint, we find $uneq v$, so because $|f^{-1}({w})|=2$, we find $f^{-1}({w})={u,v}$. Hence, we find $f^{-1}(W)subset Ucup V$. Because $f$ is continuous, $f^{-1}(W)$ is open, so $N:=f^{-1}(W)cap U$ is open. Notice that $xin N$, so $N$ is a neighborhood of $x$. Finally, $f$ is injective in $N$, because for all $nin N$ we have $f(n)in W$. This gives $f^{-1}({f(n)})={n,v}$ for some $vin V$, and $U$ and $V$ are disjoint, so $vnotin U$.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
If it should be possible to prove that $f$ is open, then it must be based on special features of $S^2$. See yoyo's example of a function $f : S^1 to S^1$ which is not open.
$endgroup$
– Paul Frost
Dec 18 '18 at 14:18
$begingroup$
Right, so its probably not making things any easier...
$endgroup$
– SmileyCraft
Dec 18 '18 at 16:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If I understand correctly, Florentin MB's answer will be complete if we can prove that $f$ is locally injective. Feel free to tell me if I'm wrong here, but I think we can at least show that $f$ is locally injective if $f$ is open. It seems to me that $f$ should be open, but I don't know how to prove that.
Let $xin S^2$ and $f(x)=f(y)$ for $xneq y$. Then let $U$ and $V$ be disjoint opens such that $xin U$ and $yin V$. If $f$ is open, then $f(U)$ and $f(V)$ are open, so $W:=f(U)cap f(V)$ is open. Now for every $win W$ there exist $uin U$ and $vin V$ such that $f(u)=f(v)=w$. Because $U$ and $V$ are disjoint, we find $uneq v$, so because $|f^{-1}({w})|=2$, we find $f^{-1}({w})={u,v}$. Hence, we find $f^{-1}(W)subset Ucup V$. Because $f$ is continuous, $f^{-1}(W)$ is open, so $N:=f^{-1}(W)cap U$ is open. Notice that $xin N$, so $N$ is a neighborhood of $x$. Finally, $f$ is injective in $N$, because for all $nin N$ we have $f(n)in W$. This gives $f^{-1}({f(n)})={n,v}$ for some $vin V$, and $U$ and $V$ are disjoint, so $vnotin U$.
$endgroup$
If I understand correctly, Florentin MB's answer will be complete if we can prove that $f$ is locally injective. Feel free to tell me if I'm wrong here, but I think we can at least show that $f$ is locally injective if $f$ is open. It seems to me that $f$ should be open, but I don't know how to prove that.
Let $xin S^2$ and $f(x)=f(y)$ for $xneq y$. Then let $U$ and $V$ be disjoint opens such that $xin U$ and $yin V$. If $f$ is open, then $f(U)$ and $f(V)$ are open, so $W:=f(U)cap f(V)$ is open. Now for every $win W$ there exist $uin U$ and $vin V$ such that $f(u)=f(v)=w$. Because $U$ and $V$ are disjoint, we find $uneq v$, so because $|f^{-1}({w})|=2$, we find $f^{-1}({w})={u,v}$. Hence, we find $f^{-1}(W)subset Ucup V$. Because $f$ is continuous, $f^{-1}(W)$ is open, so $N:=f^{-1}(W)cap U$ is open. Notice that $xin N$, so $N$ is a neighborhood of $x$. Finally, $f$ is injective in $N$, because for all $nin N$ we have $f(n)in W$. This gives $f^{-1}({f(n)})={n,v}$ for some $vin V$, and $U$ and $V$ are disjoint, so $vnotin U$.
answered Dec 16 '18 at 0:13
SmileyCraftSmileyCraft
3,491517
3,491517
1
$begingroup$
If it should be possible to prove that $f$ is open, then it must be based on special features of $S^2$. See yoyo's example of a function $f : S^1 to S^1$ which is not open.
$endgroup$
– Paul Frost
Dec 18 '18 at 14:18
$begingroup$
Right, so its probably not making things any easier...
$endgroup$
– SmileyCraft
Dec 18 '18 at 16:40
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
If it should be possible to prove that $f$ is open, then it must be based on special features of $S^2$. See yoyo's example of a function $f : S^1 to S^1$ which is not open.
$endgroup$
– Paul Frost
Dec 18 '18 at 14:18
$begingroup$
Right, so its probably not making things any easier...
$endgroup$
– SmileyCraft
Dec 18 '18 at 16:40
1
1
$begingroup$
If it should be possible to prove that $f$ is open, then it must be based on special features of $S^2$. See yoyo's example of a function $f : S^1 to S^1$ which is not open.
$endgroup$
– Paul Frost
Dec 18 '18 at 14:18
$begingroup$
If it should be possible to prove that $f$ is open, then it must be based on special features of $S^2$. See yoyo's example of a function $f : S^1 to S^1$ which is not open.
$endgroup$
– Paul Frost
Dec 18 '18 at 14:18
$begingroup$
Right, so its probably not making things any easier...
$endgroup$
– SmileyCraft
Dec 18 '18 at 16:40
$begingroup$
Right, so its probably not making things any easier...
$endgroup$
– SmileyCraft
Dec 18 '18 at 16:40
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3033601%2fdoes-there-exist-a-continuous-2-to-1-function-from-the-sphere-to-itself%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
$begingroup$
I don't know much topology, but here's an idea: if you take $f^{-1}$ to be continuous as well, then $f$ would be a homeomorphism from some connected subset of the sphere to itself. However, a sphere partitions $3$-space into two parts, and no connected subset of a sphere partitions $3$-space into two parts (because, non-rigorously speaking, it must have a hole).
$endgroup$
– Frpzzd
Dec 18 '18 at 0:00
1
$begingroup$
We know that $f$ cannot be a covering map. This leaves the question whether your function $f$ must be a covering map. The answers by Florentin MB and SmileyCraft are have gaps. Florentin MB cannot show that $f$ is locally injective and SmileyCraft assumes that $f$ is open. The arguments used in these answers cannot be sufficient because they are of a very general nature and do not invoke special features of $S^2$. This is shown by yoyo's comment where you can find a continuous function $f : S^1 to S^1$ which is not a covering although preimages of points contain two points
$endgroup$
– Paul Frost
Dec 18 '18 at 14:11
1
$begingroup$
Related: mathoverflow.net/questions/17707/…
$endgroup$
– Dap
Dec 20 '18 at 14:19
1
$begingroup$
See my answer at MathOverflow.
$endgroup$
– GH from MO
Dec 23 '18 at 2:17